Klarinet Archive - Posting 000584.txt from 2001/01

From: "Jeroen T. Salm" <jtsalm@-----.nl>
Subj: Re: [kl] Lelia and the list
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 16:57:34 -0500

I second you, Tony!
(See my remarks on usenet in Lelia´s thread...)
Reading Lelia´s (original) posting (see usenet) did not at all make even
me -- not native English speaking at all! -- think that she compared person
'A' with person 'B'!!

I am subscribed to this list just a few days ago ( I was a ´member´of this
list for a short period a few years ago), and yes, although I haven´t read
any of Lelia´s postings about clarinet(s) here in this list, I have the
feeling missing her already!

Jeroen T. Salm
(The Netherlands)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Pay" <Tony@-----.uk>
Cc: <LeliaLoban@-----.com>
Subject: [kl] Lelia and the list

> I want to say that the nub of this matter is that it isn't really about
> politics at all.
>
> It's about *what is true*; and about the very important difference
> between what is true and *what can plausibly be asserted, and thus got
> away with*.
>
> Lelia made clear in her post on Usenet that what she objected to wasn't
> that she had been 'moderated' for being offtopic on a moderated Forum.
> What she objected to was being told that she had been moderated because
> she made a statement of similarity that she didn't in fact make, and
> one that she indeed repudiated. Moreover she went public with that
> objection only several weeks later, when it appeared that other people
> had been told she *had* made that statement of similarity, in a
> situation where those other people couldn't check for themselves.
>
> The accusation that someone has said or implied that something is
> similar to something else is always difficult to counter, because
> everything is similar to everything else in many respects -- actually,
> in infinitely many respects -- so simply *mentioning* in the same post
> two things that are superficially similar can make it plausible that
> they have been compared. It is necessary to examine carefully what has
> actually been said in order to determine the truth of the matter.
>
> Lelia did mention, at different points in her original post to the
> Clarinet Forum, both the persons she is alleged to have said to be
> similar. But examination of what she wrote shows quite clearly that she
> did not say that they are similar -- she mentioned the second of them
> only to make quite another point -- even though they obviously do
> exhibit trivial similarities, such as that they are both men and both
> leaders, for example.
>
> An angry someone might miss that fact on a first reading. But surely
> not on mature consideration. One might regret that the matter ever
> needed to be discussed. But now that it is under discussion, I have to
> say that the difficulty is much more important and fundamental than a
> political difference over the recent election; and saying erroneously
> that it reduces to such a political difference, and that such matters
> are off-topic, does not make the difficulty go away.
>
> Though I am particularly saddened by Lelia's departure from the Klarinet
> list, I am even more saddened, and very surprised, that Mark either
> cannot see, or is unwilling to acknowledge, the point. Whether or not
> you disagree with her political opinions or her expression of them,
> Lelia is an honourable person, and she has been wronged in this, even
> though that wrong may be invisible to those here who have only her word
> that it occurred.
>
> But it is visible to me, and perhaps to some others; and I call on Mark
> to remedy the wrong by acknowledging it, even though I am sure that
> doing so will not have Lelia return to the Klarinet list.
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> ...... Don't bother me... I'm living happily ever after.
>
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