Klarinet Archive - Posting 000582.txt from 2001/01

From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subj: [kl] Lelia and the list
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:41:18 -0500

I want to say that the nub of this matter is that it isn't really about
politics at all.

It's about *what is true*; and about the very important difference
between what is true and *what can plausibly be asserted, and thus got
away with*.

Lelia made clear in her post on Usenet that what she objected to wasn't
that she had been 'moderated' for being offtopic on a moderated Forum.
What she objected to was being told that she had been moderated because
she made a statement of similarity that she didn't in fact make, and
one that she indeed repudiated. Moreover she went public with that
objection only several weeks later, when it appeared that other people
had been told she *had* made that statement of similarity, in a
situation where those other people couldn't check for themselves.

The accusation that someone has said or implied that something is
similar to something else is always difficult to counter, because
everything is similar to everything else in many respects -- actually,
in infinitely many respects -- so simply *mentioning* in the same post
two things that are superficially similar can make it plausible that
they have been compared. It is necessary to examine carefully what has
actually been said in order to determine the truth of the matter.

Lelia did mention, at different points in her original post to the
Clarinet Forum, both the persons she is alleged to have said to be
similar. But examination of what she wrote shows quite clearly that she
did not say that they are similar -- she mentioned the second of them
only to make quite another point -- even though they obviously do
exhibit trivial similarities, such as that they are both men and both
leaders, for example.

An angry someone might miss that fact on a first reading. But surely
not on mature consideration. One might regret that the matter ever
needed to be discussed. But now that it is under discussion, I have to
say that the difficulty is much more important and fundamental than a
political difference over the recent election; and saying erroneously
that it reduces to such a political difference, and that such matters
are off-topic, does not make the difficulty go away.

Though I am particularly saddened by Lelia's departure from the Klarinet
list, I am even more saddened, and very surprised, that Mark either
cannot see, or is unwilling to acknowledge, the point. Whether or not
you disagree with her political opinions or her expression of them,
Lelia is an honourable person, and she has been wronged in this, even
though that wrong may be invisible to those here who have only her word
that it occurred.

But it is visible to me, and perhaps to some others; and I call on Mark
to remedy the wrong by acknowledging it, even though I am sure that
doing so will not have Lelia return to the Klarinet list.

Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
tel/fax 01865 553339

...... Don't bother me... I'm living happily ever after.

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