Klarinet Archive - Posting 000368.txt from 2000/12

From: Gavin Rebetzke <GRebetzke@-----.au>
Subj: RE: [kl] Re: The Definitive Answer: Apostrophes (and sibilant sou
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 03:23:50 -0500

Karel Vahala wrote:
>Tim, what I had learned was that it is acceptable to write Roberts'
clarinet,
>but the pronunciation remaines (sic) as if the second "s" was present; i.e.
the
>apostrophe signifies that a letter has been omitted .

Karel, I know for a fact that this is sometimes taught in Australia
(pronunciation of Roberts' Clarinet as Robertses Clarinet), however, I
wonder if it is wise to do this as it leads to confusion in pronunciation
because there are traditional examples which are spelt without the second s
and which are pronounced as they are written, such as:

Jesus' disciples (two syllables, not three)

Moses' laws (likewise)

Achilles' tendon (three, not four syllables)

Fowler suggests that it was formerly the custom to omit the additional s in
writing the possessive of words ending in s but that it is now the custom
usually to add the s and the syllable, particularly when the word is
monosyllabic, for example, Jones's children. This leaves the possessive of
multisyllabic names such as "Roberts" as a puzzle which could still go
either way.

In a guide published by the Australian Government Publishing Service, Dr
George Stern suggests that the second s should be used except in names that
end in two consecutive sibilant sounds, sibilant sounds being ones that
sound like the "-ss" in hiss or the "-zz" in buzz. The reason: he suggests
this is only because the addition of a third sibilant sound (the s after the
apostrophe) would make the name hard to pronounce.

My suggestion: both Roberts's and Roberts' are acceptable. Use whichever
you think sounds best, but don't expect every reader to pronounce Roberts'
as Robertses - if you think "Robertses clarinet" sounds better than "Roberts
clarinet" then I think it might be best that you write "Roberts's clarinet"
to avoid confusion. But, then again, no one cares what I think, and this is
a case where there are no fixed rules and you CAN do what you please.
(unlike the use of an apostrophe to form plurals!)

Gavin

-----Original Message-----
From: Karel Vahala [mailto:vahalakv@-----.au]
Subject: Re: [kl] Re: The Definitive Answer: Apostrophes

Tim, what I had learned was that it is acceptable to write Roberts'
clarinet,
but the pronunciation remaines as if the second "s" was present; i.e. the
apostrophe signifies that a letter has been omitted .

Karel

Tim Roberts wrote:

> On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 01:02:21 -0800, Gary Truesdail <gir@-----.net>
wrote:
> >
> >The mystery of the 'Apostrophes' has been solved. Make of it as you
will.
> >
> >Check out this site:
> >http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_apost.html
>
> There is one aspect of this that is definitely NOT definitive. As someone
> whose last name ends in "s", I can assure you that there is essentially no
> agreement on whether you should write "Tim Roberts' clarinet" or "Tim
> Roberts's clarinet". I learned it the latter way, and it caused a heated
> discussion with my daughter's 5th grade teacher.
>
> Strunk and White's "Elements of Style" clearly says Roberts's.
>
> Devries "Writer's Style Guide" says Roberts's unless the resulting word is
> hard to pronounce, then use Roberts'. For example, she suggests "Jesus'
> birth".
>
> The Bowie State University style guide says the choice is personal
> preference. That's probably the most accurate assessment.
>
> The well-respected Chicago Manual of Style says Roberts's.
>
> The equally well-respected AP Style Guide says Roberts'.
>
> The Editor's Guide for Church Newsletters says Roberts'.
>
> The following article by grammar curmudgeon James Kilpatrick sums up the
> current thinking on this topic:
>
>
http://www.uexpress.com/ups/opinion/column/jk/text/1999/05/jk9905026998.html
>
> --
> - Tim Roberts, timr@-----.com
> Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
>
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