Klarinet Archive - Posting 000618.txt from 2000/11
From: "saxhorn4" <saxhorn4@-----.net>
Subj: [kl] Albert system fingering chart
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:01:00 -0500
Could anyone help me locate a fingering chart for the albert system
Thank you Allen
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From: klarinet-digest-help@-----.org
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Subject: klarinet Digest 18 Nov 2000 21:15:00 -0000 Issue 2695
klarinet Digest 18 Nov 2000 21:15:00 -0000 Issue 2695
Topics (messages 37756 through 37762):
Fantastique or catastrophe?
37756 by: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Poor Man's A Clarinet (was: Re: [kl] Fantastique or catastrophe?)
37757 by: "Doug Sears" <dsears@-----.net>
37761 by: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Joy to the World
37758 by: "Musicstudents.com" <jonathan@-----.com>
37760 by: DeLorenzo <shadyoak@-----.net>
Beginners/Enthusiasts Welcome?
37759 by: StephanieDavis99@-----.com
37762 by: Audrey Travis <vsofan@-----.com>
Administrivia:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:31:42 GMT
From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subject: Re: [kl] Fantastique or catastrophe?
Message-ID: <20001118.103142.50@-----.uk>
On Fri, 17 Nov 2000 23:53:40 -0800, gir@-----.net said:
> Michael wrote:
>
> > Would a black shoe-lace yield a "darker" tone?
>
> Darker tone? No.
Ah, you *did* get around to trying it out for yourself, then.
Congratulations!-)
> But it would be appropriate for the more formal occasions, or
> funerals, or divorce or orchestra bankruptcies.
In this context, I'm ashamed to say that I used *white* nylon cord for
the Witches' Sabbath.
Highly inappropriate. (*White* magic, indeed!)
By the way, I think I should point out that the pitch modification I'm
talking about is less than 5 vibrations around 440 Hz, which is about an
eighth of a tone. Moving a clarinet a semitone lower is a much more
radical thing to do, and I personally doubt that this technique was ever
used for such a thing. Most 'period' players, including myself, use it
for these very small modifications only as a last resort. In general,
we use different instruments for different periods, and we've more or
less arbitrarily standardised the pitches, as I've mentioned here
before.
The legend that you could change a Bb clarinet into an A clarinet
satisfactorily possibly arose because people haven't routinely needed to
alter the pitch of an instrument by a few vibrations in modern times --
until the period performance movement, that is. So Bb to A perhaps
seemed the only conceivable use for the 'string' technique.
Does anyone happen to know when and where the technique is first
mentioned in the literature? Or if indeed it is mentioned?
Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
tel/fax 01865 553339
... I want everything; do you have it??
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:54:26 -0800
From: "Doug Sears" <dsears@-----.net>
Subject: Poor Man's A Clarinet (was: Re: [kl] Fantastique or catastrophe?)
Message-ID: <008301c05188$98121d60$240624d8=BigD>
I gathered together a collection of various sizes of string and cotton
cord, my Bb clarinet, and an electronic tuner, and got a surprise! I had
heard that the cord would make the pitch lower by lowering the speed of
sound
within the cord, due to frictional effects of the fuzzy fibers. I found that
large diameter fuzzy cord gave a very stuffy sound, not even worth measuring
the pitch. However, when I stuck a 1/4 inch diameter wooden dowel up the
bore, the pitch was lowered almost a semitone without affecting the tone
very
much.
Someone who was desperate to convert a Bb clar. to A might consider
experimenting with this. Slightly larger than 1/4 inch ought to give a full
semitone. Forget the string -- use something rigid, like wood or plastic.
The
pitch lowering comes from decreasing the effective bore size.
--Doug
----------------------------
Doug Sears dsears@-----.org/~dsears
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 19:21:05 GMT
From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subject: Re: [kl] Poor Man's A Clarinet (was: Re: [kl] Fantastique or
catastrophe?)
Message-ID: <20001118.192105.15@-----.uk>
On Sat, 18 Nov 2000 09:54:26 -0800, dsears@-----.net said:
> I gathered together a collection of various sizes of string and cotton
> cord, my Bb clarinet, and an electronic tuner, and got a surprise! I
> had heard that the cord would make the pitch lower by lowering the
> speed of sound within the cord, due to frictional effects of the fuzzy
> fibers. I found that large diameter fuzzy cord gave a very stuffy
> sound, not even worth measuring the pitch. However, when I stuck a 1/4
> inch diameter wooden dowel up the bore, the pitch was lowered almost a
> semitone without affecting the tone very much.
>
> Someone who was desperate to convert a Bb clar. to A might consider
> experimenting with this. Slightly larger than 1/4 inch ought to give a
> full semitone. Forget the string -- use something rigid, like wood or
> plastic. The pitch lowering comes from decreasing the effective bore
> size.
Well done, Doug! (You did it for yourself.)
I agree with you that the change in the effective bore size is probably
the significant factor.
Just out of interest, where did you hear that frictional effects were
dominant?
When I had to move a clarinet to a significantly lower pitch, I used
loudspeaker cable, which worked better than string, as you suggest. I
repost here something I wrote in August for the Early Clarinet list:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
rbaxter@-----.com said:
> The only way I know of getting the result is to try different types of
> cord: shoe lace, leather thong, clothes line, whatever 'til you find
> the right diameter that works for you/your situation. I think I tied a
> nut or a small bolt to the bottom end for weight. I don't think it
> should coil up. I know it works but it's not really practical in the
> real world.
>
> It's a 'gimmick', like fixing a bike tire flat with friction tape :]
On the other hand, if you really have to change the pitch of a
particular clarinet in order to play with other instruments at a
significantly flatter pitch, it may be the only way.
A few years ago I had to play a concert including Wagner's Siegfried
Idyll and Wesendonck Lieder, Brahms violin concerto and something else,
that was being done on period instruments, at A@-----. The best I could
do at the time for a German style clarinet was a Belgian Albert system
instrument which had something of the right sort of sound. But it went
at 440, or even a little above.
The principal difficulty is avoiding thick cord near the toneholes. My
solution was to use double stranded loudspeaker cable (not the coaxial
sort) temporarily anchored to the wall of the instrument. I hitched a
short double length of waxed thread to the cable where it went past the
end of the tenon at the bottom of the top joint, and pulled the cable
tight against the bore with the free ends before assembling the
instrument. The cable was thus held in place by the double thread, and
the double thread itself held in place by friction at the joint as it
passed from inside to outside the clarinet. I made a small wire gadget
that held the top end inside the barrel.
The best cylinder generator for avoiding toneholes is obviously the
lowest one -- except that the cable then runs across the LH thumb hole.
I got round this by reducing the cable to just one of the inner plastic
covered wires for an inch and a half or so at that point, discarding the
outer cover of that wire and the entire other part of the double cable.
I did this on both Bb and A instruments. The effect on the sound was
actually positive, making the rather 'open' sound of the Alberts more
contained.
Several people commented on how much they liked the sound of this
'clarinet', and the solos in the Wesendonck lieder (a gift of a part, I
know) and the Siegfried Idyll were particularly applauded in a review of
the concert.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
tel/fax 01865 553339
... Monday is the root of all evil!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 10:22:24 -0800
From: "Musicstudents.com" <jonathan@-----.com>
Subject: Joy to the World
Message-ID: <004a01c0518c$8190ddc0$21ebcbd8=jonsmith>
------@-----.71A0CD00
charset="iso-8859-1"
Does anyone know the original name of the Handel piece that later had =
the lyrics "Joy to the World" written over it?
Thanks,
Jonathan
----------------------------------------------------------------
www.musicstudents.com
------@-----.71A0CD00--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:27:36 -0500
From: DeLorenzo <shadyoak@-----.net>
Subject: Re: [kl] Joy to the World
Message-ID: <3A16D828.EFAC7089@-----.net>
Jonathan,
Could it be "Antioch"? The Index of Tune Names at the back of our hymnal
lists it as that.
Kathy
"Musicstudents.com" wrote:
> Does anyone know the original name of the Handel piece that later had the
lyrics "Joy to the World" written over it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> www.musicstudents.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 14:22:26 EST
From: StephanieDavis99@-----.com
Subject: Beginners/Enthusiasts Welcome?
Message-ID: <e1.c84ccea.274830f2@-----.com>
Mr. Benoit's opinion notwithstanding, I have been thrilled to see all of the
questions and discussions here in the few days I've been lurking.
I'm a clarinet enthusiast who has recently decided to "make it legal" and,
at
the ripe old age of 40, learn to play the instrument myself. I'm in a bit
of
a financial bind at the moment, but yesterday a friend sold me her plastic
Vito 7212 student clarinet (a steal at $30; it's only a few years old),
which a repairman friend is refurbishing for me even as we speak. That is
OK
for a start, but in a few months when I can better afford it I would like to
step up to a brand new wooden intermediate instrument; probably a Normandy 4
or Noblet 40. Whatever I get will definitely be a Leblanc instrument.
I hope beginners such as myself are welcome here to learn and to ask a
question or two. If not, just let me know and I will settle into lurkdom,
soaking up the knowledge and enjoying the conversation of the more
accomplished clarinetists.
Sincerely yours,
Stephanie Davis
Soon-to-be clarinetist :)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 12:32:17 -0800
From: Audrey Travis <vsofan@-----.com>
Subject: Re: [kl] Beginners/Enthusiasts Welcome?
Message-ID: <3A16E744.D86E3FB6@-----.com>
You are absolutely welcome, Stephanie! Glad to have you aboard. I started
learning clarinet at age 50 after hearing so much beautiful sound emanating
from
our local symphony orchestra, the Vancouver Symphony . I now take lessons
with
its principal clarinetist and love everything about clarinet. We have
wonderful, very knowledgeable, helpful and even funny people on the list.
Anyone (like you) who is willing to spread more clarinetdom into the world
is an
asset here!
Audrey
StephanieDavis99@-----.com wrote:
> Mr. Benoit's opinion notwithstanding, I have been thrilled to see all of
the
> questions and discussions here in the few days I've been lurking.
>
> I'm a clarinet enthusiast who has recently decided to "make it legal" and,
at
> the ripe old age of 40, learn to play the instrument myself. I'm in a bit
of
> a financial bind at the moment, but yesterday a friend sold me her plastic
> Vito 7212 student clarinet (a steal at $30; it's only a few years old),
> which a repairman friend is refurbishing for me even as we speak. That is
OK
> for a start, but in a few months when I can better afford it I would like
to
> step up to a brand new wooden intermediate instrument; probably a Normandy
4
> or Noblet 40. Whatever I get will definitely be a Leblanc instrument.
>
> I hope beginners such as myself are welcome here to learn and to ask a
> question or two. If not, just let me know and I will settle into lurkdom,
> soaking up the knowledge and enjoying the conversation of the more
> accomplished clarinetists.
>
> Sincerely yours,
>
> Stephanie Davis
> Soon-to-be clarinetist :)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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