Klarinet Archive - Posting 001442.txt from 2000/10

From: LeliaLoban@-----.com
Subj: [kl] Stolen Bass C
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:49:19 -0500

Re. contacting eBay about the withdrawn transaction on David Hattner's stolen
bass clarinet, Fred (fsheim@-----.com) wrote,
>I believe that you cannot post feedback unless you COMPLETE a transaction
>with him.

I'm not even registered on eBay (my husband is), but under my own screen
name, I was able to write a message on the site. It's an e-mail type form,
different than feedback on a transaction. It took me awhile to figure out
how to get to that screen from the main page, and I'm sorry to say I can't
reconstruct the procedure now. I just kept clicking on various screens that
had to do with questions about the site, FAQs and so on, until I got to a
form for communication and suggestions from people who aren't registered
users.

Dee D. Hays <deehays@-----.net> wrote that the eBay seller
>>...has done nothing that violates eBay policies or procedures.
[snip]
>>One thing that should be born in mind, this person purchased the instrument
>>in good faith from the police department. So it is understandable if he is
>>upset even though he may be in the wrong. He has every right to be just as
>>steamed up as the person from whom it was originally stolen. And angry
>>people say stupid things. So now he has made stupid remarks to one of our
>>list members and we all get angry. This is not the way to go about it.
>>David Hatner should of course continue to work on getting his horn back but
>>he needs to work through the police department that made such a mistake.

The eBay seller is a wronged party, I agree. The original thief and the
careless police who sold David Hattner's property instead of contacting him
and returning it are the major culprits here. The police made a serious
blunder, IMHO, since this was a fairly recent theft, the owner reported it,
and he remained easy to locate. However, the eBay seller did worse than say
something merely stupid. David Hattner reports that "Jim" demanded a profit
(i.e. a ransom) and threatened to destroy the clarinet if he didn't get it.
That's the point I made in my e-mail to eBay. If eBay doesn't have a policy
against extortion, maybe someone ought to write one.

>>And another thought. Was it really proper to contact the bidders and seller
>>without first having contacted the police about this horn and cleared up the
>>legal issues? Wouldn't you be a little steamed if you were the seller?

I agree that the rightful owner needs to proceed through the police -- but
IMHO, since the police *already* grossly mishandled this case, David Hattner
was right not to sit around waiting for them, especially on a weekend. Time
was of the essence. He was right to jump in and take immediate action to
stop that sale, before some innocent third party buyer got dragged into the
mess. The deal would have become much harder to untangle once a new owner
entered the picture. (This is a comparatively simple situation. Imagine the
even worse mess if the eBay seller had bought from a flea market vendor,
who'd bought for less money from a picker, who'd bought for still less money
from the cop auction.) Yes, the eBay seller was wronged, too, and I can see
him being momentarily flustered and reacting inappropriately -- but
threatening to destroy the valuable instrument, *after* the rightful owner
had offered to reimburse the seller's costs, is deeply sleazy. I wouldn't
want to do business with this character. EBay needs to hear about this sort
of thing.

When David Hattner contacted "Jim", why wasn't the seller's first reaction to
go howling to the police himself? How come he didn't want to *help* the
original owner, instead of gouging him? No, this guy's no virgin, or else he
would have reacted differently. I think eBay would do well to toss this
dealer. (Tossing is a slap on the wrist anyway, a temporary inconvenience
until a friend or relative fronts him a new dealer's identity.)

>From my point of view as a long-time regular in the markets for used
property, I see dealers who buy their merch at the cop auctions as a tough
lot, the hardiest of the pickers. Like a lot of bargain hunters, I don't go
to the cop auctions because I'm afraid of them. That's licking the basement
floor of the legit bottom-feeder market. You can slurp up some fine goods
for a lot less than they're worth -- tempting -- but the hidden price is way
higher than I'll pay. I know a lot of flea market people who feel the same.

You buy there, you buy anxiety. You *know* that merch didn't come from some
nice, clean estate sale. *All* the items in that auction are either stolen,
forfeited or impounded. The forfeits and impounds come from seriously bad
people. You *know* that kind of purchase can jump up and bite you later, no
matter what the cop contract says about quiet title. There's no such thing
as quiet title if a drug lord wants his impounded goodies back -- especially
if the mobster whose stuff is getting auctioned sends a stooge to the auction
and the stooge gets outbid. Then the wiseguy's really foaming at the mouth.
This eBay dealer knows he's lucky that David Hattner turned out to be a
respectable musician, the innocent victim of a theft, not some goon. Maybe
"Jim" reacts to a scare by playing the bully. The only way to deal with a
bully is, "Ishka, pishka, hit him in the kishka." Figuratively and
legalistically speaking, of course. Glad to hear there's an insurance
company involved. Sic the insurance company bulldogs on him. That's the
ticket.

Lelia
"Who let the dogs out?! Woof -- woof...."

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