Klarinet Archive - Posting 001103.txt from 2000/10
From: David Glenn <notestaff@-----.de>
Subj: [kl] Mozart and high notes
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:34:29 -0400
Daniel Leeson wrote:
> David, your note is fantastically interesting but I just don't know how
> to deal with it. It shows a great love of the subject and a desire to
> do right and that's terrific. But what it says is "he could have," or
> "he should have," or "he might have" or "he probably did." And those
> things don't get us anywhere.
>
> You don't even have some important facts on your side. Stadler had his
> basset clarinet as early as 1789, and very possibly earlier but that's
> hard to prove. K. 581 dates from this time and since it is written for
> basset clarinet (and Stadler) we have to presume that he had the
> instrument. Yet nowhere in what we play is there any evidence of high
> notes above D.
>
> And this fact weighs very heavily against the argument that in 1791
> Mozart might have put in high notes. If he wanted to put in high notes
> then he could have done it in 1789, and he did not.
>
> Your note reads as if, suddenly, in 1791 Mozart writes for this brand
> new instrument and this is simply not the case. He used it in 1789 in
> K. 581, he used it in Cosi (which I think is 1790), and he used it in
> Titus which is 1791. No high notes! And for Cosi and Titus we have the
> autographs to confirm what he wanted, though in neither case is there a
> place where he could have used such notes, so maybe they don't count.
>
> In light of this, you just don't have a leg to stand on (other than your
> wanting very much to do something) when you start with the "he could
> have," or "he might have," or blah, blah, blah.
>
> Now, if you say, "I don't give a damn that there is no hard evidence for
> it, I am going to do it and if you don't like it, stick it high up where
> it's red," there is nothing I can do about it. Be my guest.
>
> But you are not going to get where you want to go by bending history to
> give it the direction that you want it to take.
>
> Your very first statement below about the altissimo register not being
> unknown in the classic period is an example of your attempt to fit a
> round peg in a square hole. In Mozart's music the altissimo register is
> absolutely unknown, and if someone else used it, they should be healthy
> and live well, but it means very little.
>
> Dan Leeson
>
> David Glenn wrote:
> >
> > Sorry to be so late with this one. I'm trying to catch up a bit after a
> > hefty week/week-end and today a crown on one tooth....
> >
> > The altissimo register was not unknown in the classic period. Alan
> > Hacker once showed me a manuscript - it must've been 25 years ago - it
> > was a solo piece for clarinet which went up to c'''' - I'm "sort of
> > sure" it was by Anton Stadler. Am I right or did I get it mixed up with
> > another composer (Hoffmeister???)
> >
> > If he did write it, then he surely could play it. In which case he
> > probably *did* play it. Can anybody help my feeble old grey cells here?
> >
> > Another point is that the invention of the basset clarinet by no means
> > only extended the range downwards! I had my Uebel clarinets for several
> > months before having them bassetized by Brian Ackermann/Ted Planas.
> > After bassetization they played a lot more easily in the altissimo
> > register. Maybe Stadler had the same experience though I can't say how
> > it is on the old boxwood clainets.
> >
> > Nevertheless, I tend to agree with you, Dan, that Mozart avoided the
> > high notes above D. But not entirely!
> >
> > Dan, do you have a solution for measure 142 in the first mvt. which
> > avoids the high F? I always did feel a bit uncomfortable there. On the
> > other hand I wouldn't want to miss the high E's and the D# in bar 222/3
> > or the high E in bar 338. Also wonderfully effective is the dramatic
> > jump to the top Eb in the last movement, bar 111.
> >
> > David
> >
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> --
> ***************************
> ** Dan Leeson **
> ** leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Dan,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply! Again, sorry I'm so late...
It's touching to see how important this is to you. I feel empathy with that!
Let's hope you can convince me not to do anything which goes against the spirit
of the composition.
I'm not an expert on musical history but perhaps I know more than you think I
do? I do know that K581 was *very probably* written for basset clarinet. I've
attempted to play it on one but it seems even more speculative than K622. No
(Winterthur) manuscript, no AMZ review, no contemporary arrangements....
As far as the high notes in K622 are concerned, how far can you compare
orchestral and chamber works to solo concerti? As Mozart only wrote one
concerto (unless the Eb concerto really is by Mozart - but that's opening up
another can of worms) of which the manuscript is lost, so we haven't too much
material to compare. The fact that Mozart never wrote an orchestral or chamber
music part for the clarinet which goes above high D doesn't convince me that he
can't have written (or didn't likely write) higher for a solo part in a
clarinet concerto.
More contemporaries of Mozart besides Stadler also wrote clarinet concerti
which go well above high D:
Johann Stamitz (or possibly Karl) in his concerto takes the clarinet up to high
F with a trill - thus to hi G. That was either one generation before Mozart or
in any case written before K622. Next is Karl Stamitz. For instance his
concerto "No. 10" in Bb goes to high G. F. Krommer's Concerto op. 36 abounds
with hi F's. and I.J. Pleyel's concerto even goes up to high A ! (I can hear
you thinking: and unfortately, they all lived longer than Mozart!)
And yet, as I mentioned some of these passages which go so high in K622 bother
me. It just feels wrong. But what should I do? Go by my feeling and make up
something (inferior) to not go up to high F or G? Or be comforted by the fact
that these contemporaries of Mozart's (also) wrote so high in their concerti
but not in their orchestral works? What weighs more? Which is the round peg in
the square hole?
Yours respectfully,
David
P.S. Do you really think I don't give a damn about hard evidence??
P.P.S. I would still love to hear (even speculative) solutions for the above
spots in K622.
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