Klarinet Archive - Posting 000752.txt from 2000/08

From: les debusk <sflane@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Wood and other materials
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:04:20 -0400

Thank You and sorry for my misunderstandings. I understand now. And one day
everyone will have to face the future of plastic or an alternative material. Its
inevitable.

Happy playing,
Les DeBusk

Daniel Leeson wrote:

> No, No, No. You misunderstood my comments completely. I was not being
> critical of what you said, only that you had been so cautious about
> bringing the matter up, that I felt you had never even considered the
> alternative.
>
> Personally, I was delighted that you did bring it up. I do see a
> negative reaction to a topic that is brought up several times on this
> list, but I think that it is good for that to happen. Views change over
> time and new people come on. Simply telling them to read the historical
> files on the subject is counterproductive.
>
> So accept my comments as a compliment, not as criticism. And to be
> perfectly clear, my compliment lies exclusively in the fact that you
> brought the topic up at all, not in the overdelicate way you discussed
> it.
>
> Dan Leeson
>
> les debusk wrote:
> >
> > <<<The very person who started this round of the discussion, asked a
> > question about plastic instruments as if the very suggestion that
> > plastic might be a suitable substitute for wood was an idea so insane
> > that he could not even think about such an alternative.>>>
> >
> > Leeson,
> >
> > Hi, when i started this discussion I was only stating my opinion and I
> > was asking for others opinions on how other materials such as plastic would
> > work (not being mean). Everyone can state an opinion until (and we need such
> > an experiment to conclude this) a very authoritative decision or by the way
> > of an experiment (such as making a plastic R-13) comes to play and is made to
> > figure that plastic or another material besides wood has a different affect
> > on the clarinet's ability to sound true (not saying that everyone's opinion
> > is false or has any falseness to their own opinion).
> >
> > Consequently, this world is changing. Wood will run out one day. Buffet
> > is already leaping forward on the Greenline to let the wood supply last
> > longer and for other issues and i know another maker is doing the same, i
> > think. I know there are alternatives to wood other than plastic. And there
> > are different types of wood other than grenadilla wood. The main question
> > was, Why is wood so important to the way people perceive the sound; is there
> > something about wood that acoustically is different from another material?
> > Could it be weight, thickness in the walls, or just the density.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Les DeBusk
> > (sorry for bringing this polemical subject back to play, i just wanted others
> > opinions)
> >
> > Daniel Leeson wrote:
> >
> > > I thank Francois Kloc for his response. I am not trying to prevent
> > > opinions from being offered, but there have been so many given on this
> > > subject that I was simply hoping for something more authoritative from
> > > the representative of such an important clarinet manufacturer.
> > >
> > > But just to show there are no hard feelings, should we meet in Paris, I
> > > will buy the choucroute! If we meet in Strasbourg, he can buy the tarte
> > > a l'ognion. And now to business.
> > >
> > > Exactly what constitutes something authoritative? Consider, for
> > > example, the opening paragraph of Coltman's paper, "Effect of Material
> > > on Flute Tone Quality," a scholarly contribution on the subject that
> > > dates from 1971.
> > >
> > > "The role that the wall material plays in determining the tone quality
> > > of wind instruments has long been a subject of argument. Laboratory
> > > measurements of sustained tones in artificially blown instruments
> > > generally show no evidence that the wall material has an appreciable
> > > effect. In spite of these experiments, instrument makers, players, and
> > > listeners continue to insist that the nature of the wall material does
> > > have an effect on the instrument's sound. Metal clarinets are
> > > considered suitable only for use in school bands. The silver flute is
> > > the accepted standard in most countries today, though symphony players
> > > insist on retaining wood for piccolos."
> > >
> > > So no matter how many times this subject comes up on this list, and it
> > > comes up frequently attesting to just how focused so many of us are on
> > > this question, most players, like M. Kloc are satisfied with their
> > > feelings on how a wooden clarinet sounds to them. In effect, all
> > > evidence is irrelevant to how one feels about the matter.
> > >
> > > While one cannot ignore the intuitive feelings of qualified players, we
> > > have a serious problem here. In the face of the presence of serious
> > > evidence that suggests that the material of a wind instrument is
> > > irrelevant to the character of sound that comes out of it, we still have
> > > important and thoughtful people saying, "but I think that it doesn't."
> > >
> > > The entire discussion is taking on the character of the flat earth
> > > society; that is, there are people who keep saying, "But I think it's
> > > flat," this despite all evidence to the contrary.
> > >
> > > The very person who started this round of the discussion, asked a
> > > question about plastic instruments as if the very suggestion that
> > > plastic might be a suitable substitute for wood was an idea so insane
> > > that he could not even think about such an alternative.
> > >
> > > In effect, the world of clarinetdom perpetuates technical nonsense on
> > > this subject and the best efforts of thoughtful people are unable to
> > > make a serious impact on changing that idea around.
> > >
> > > It's discouraging.
> > > --
> > > ***************************
> > > ** Dan Leeson **
> > > ** leeson0@-----.net **
> > > ***************************
> > >
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> --
> ***************************
> ** Dan Leeson **
> ** leeson0@-----.net **
> ***************************
>
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