Klarinet Archive - Posting 000732.txt from 2000/08

From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Wood and other materials
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:17:10 -0400

No, No, No. You misunderstood my comments completely. I was not being
critical of what you said, only that you had been so cautious about
bringing the matter up, that I felt you had never even considered the
alternative.

Personally, I was delighted that you did bring it up. I do see a
negative reaction to a topic that is brought up several times on this
list, but I think that it is good for that to happen. Views change over
time and new people come on. Simply telling them to read the historical
files on the subject is counterproductive.

So accept my comments as a compliment, not as criticism. And to be
perfectly clear, my compliment lies exclusively in the fact that you
brought the topic up at all, not in the overdelicate way you discussed
it.

Dan Leeson

les debusk wrote:
>
> <<<The very person who started this round of the discussion, asked a
> question about plastic instruments as if the very suggestion that
> plastic might be a suitable substitute for wood was an idea so insane
> that he could not even think about such an alternative.>>>
>
> Leeson,
>
> Hi, when i started this discussion I was only stating my opinion and I
> was asking for others opinions on how other materials such as plastic would
> work (not being mean). Everyone can state an opinion until (and we need such
> an experiment to conclude this) a very authoritative decision or by the way
> of an experiment (such as making a plastic R-13) comes to play and is made to
> figure that plastic or another material besides wood has a different affect
> on the clarinet's ability to sound true (not saying that everyone's opinion
> is false or has any falseness to their own opinion).
>
> Consequently, this world is changing. Wood will run out one day. Buffet
> is already leaping forward on the Greenline to let the wood supply last
> longer and for other issues and i know another maker is doing the same, i
> think. I know there are alternatives to wood other than plastic. And there
> are different types of wood other than grenadilla wood. The main question
> was, Why is wood so important to the way people perceive the sound; is there
> something about wood that acoustically is different from another material?
> Could it be weight, thickness in the walls, or just the density.
>
> Thanks,
> Les DeBusk
> (sorry for bringing this polemical subject back to play, i just wanted others
> opinions)
>
> Daniel Leeson wrote:
>
> > I thank Francois Kloc for his response. I am not trying to prevent
> > opinions from being offered, but there have been so many given on this
> > subject that I was simply hoping for something more authoritative from
> > the representative of such an important clarinet manufacturer.
> >
> > But just to show there are no hard feelings, should we meet in Paris, I
> > will buy the choucroute! If we meet in Strasbourg, he can buy the tarte
> > a l'ognion. And now to business.
> >
> > Exactly what constitutes something authoritative? Consider, for
> > example, the opening paragraph of Coltman's paper, "Effect of Material
> > on Flute Tone Quality," a scholarly contribution on the subject that
> > dates from 1971.
> >
> > "The role that the wall material plays in determining the tone quality
> > of wind instruments has long been a subject of argument. Laboratory
> > measurements of sustained tones in artificially blown instruments
> > generally show no evidence that the wall material has an appreciable
> > effect. In spite of these experiments, instrument makers, players, and
> > listeners continue to insist that the nature of the wall material does
> > have an effect on the instrument's sound. Metal clarinets are
> > considered suitable only for use in school bands. The silver flute is
> > the accepted standard in most countries today, though symphony players
> > insist on retaining wood for piccolos."
> >
> > So no matter how many times this subject comes up on this list, and it
> > comes up frequently attesting to just how focused so many of us are on
> > this question, most players, like M. Kloc are satisfied with their
> > feelings on how a wooden clarinet sounds to them. In effect, all
> > evidence is irrelevant to how one feels about the matter.
> >
> > While one cannot ignore the intuitive feelings of qualified players, we
> > have a serious problem here. In the face of the presence of serious
> > evidence that suggests that the material of a wind instrument is
> > irrelevant to the character of sound that comes out of it, we still have
> > important and thoughtful people saying, "but I think that it doesn't."
> >
> > The entire discussion is taking on the character of the flat earth
> > society; that is, there are people who keep saying, "But I think it's
> > flat," this despite all evidence to the contrary.
> >
> > The very person who started this round of the discussion, asked a
> > question about plastic instruments as if the very suggestion that
> > plastic might be a suitable substitute for wood was an idea so insane
> > that he could not even think about such an alternative.
> >
> > In effect, the world of clarinetdom perpetuates technical nonsense on
> > this subject and the best efforts of thoughtful people are unable to
> > make a serious impact on changing that idea around.
> >
> > It's discouraging.
> > --
> > ***************************
> > ** Dan Leeson **
> > ** leeson0@-----.net **
> > ***************************
> >
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--
***************************
** Dan Leeson **
** leeson0@-----.net **
***************************

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