Klarinet Archive - Posting 000651.txt from 2000/08

From: rgarrett@-----.edu
Subj: Re: [kl] Saving face (was, correcting each other)
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:44:32 -0400

At 09:06 PM 08/22/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>In the culture of science, or academic enquiry -- but above all in the
>culture of science -- it is the *attempt to save face* that is the thing
>you have to try to avoid. This is because any attempt to save face
>inevitably involves covering up the truth to some extent; and what
>science is above all committed to is the pursuit of truth.

Certainly that is a single point of view. Another point of view is that,
when one makes a a point that clearly is the winning point, it could be
viewed as less honorable to continue to tell a person not only how you won
but why they lost. It is no longer about science then, it is about pride.
That is what I meant by saving face.

>It is also a mark of respect for someone to confront them with the
>truth, *not* a mark of disrespect for them. In confronting them with
>the truth, you're saying something important about what level of
>commitment you think they're up to.

Absolutely. I think you have a very valid point. I just don't appreciate
your way of confronting sometimes.

>That's why both Don Mayer and you were ill-advised to leap in to the
>discussion I was having with Bill Hausmann

You are certainly welcome to state your opoinion about our statements if
you like.

>...and why, when I said in my
>reply to Don that I had the greatest respect for Bill's posts, I was
>simply stating the@-----.

In some political circles in many cultures that is referred to as a nice
way of rubbing someone's nose in their mistake. There are many cultures
that do not view that as honorable. It would be honorable then - perhaps
even gracious - for someone to give you the benefit of the doubt that
perhaps you didn't know it could be viewed that way - even if you didn't
actually mean it that way.

Best wishes,
Roger Garrett

Roger Garrett
Professor of Clarinet
Director, Symphonic Winds
Advisor, IWU Recording Services
Illinois Wesleyan University
School of Music
Bloomington, IL 61702-2900
(309) 556-3268

A Clarinetist's Revenge is sometimes personified by the following excerpt
from the London Daily News, circa 1926:

"The saxophone is a long metal instrument bent at both ends. It is alleged
to be musical. As regards markings, the creature has a series of tiny taps
stuck upon it, apparently at random. These taps are very sensitive: when
touched they cause the instrument to utter miserable sounds suggesting
untold agony. Sometimes it bursts into tears. At either end there is a
hole. People, sometimes for no reason at all, blow down the small end of
the saxophone which then shrieks and moans."

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