Klarinet Archive - Posting 000343.txt from 2000/06

From: "Alf Hörberg" <alf.horberg@-----.se>
Subj: SV: [kl] Alf Horberg's comments
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:34:24 -0400

Tony, this is turning into a very comprehensive discussion that I like very
much and you come up with very good analytic points. Give me the day to
spend with the family and I'll be back as soon as possible. I also have to
borrow a score since I lost mine last summer and never got around to get a
new one yet.
Promise to be there tomorrow.

Alf

----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Pay <tony_pay@-----.com>
Subject: SV: [kl] Alf Horberg's comments

> Alf Horberg wrote:
>
> >Tony, theathe reason why I find the repeated FDFD annoying is that
> >it's so unlike Mozart to change a beautiful line in a motif from
> >the exposition in such a simple way. I believe strongly that it's
> >a typical trick from the editor when he gets stuck and can't go
> >all the way. The same with bar 299 but I'll return to that. Also,
> >he's landing on a seventh twice in a row. Normally he would like
> >to leave that 7th as quickly as possible with a nice cadence:
> >F...B...C, instead of: F...F...C.
>
> I don't really hear 295 as "a beautiful line in a motif". It's only
> an arpeggio, after all. Whereas the FDFD repetition *is* motivic,
> being after all the third bar of the whole piece.
>
> Notice that the root of the chord is left out of the bass line in
> the orchestra (concert E this time around) as the clarinet reaches
> the repeated 7th you mention, which looks a deliberate reaction to
> the 7th as opposed to the 3rd in the exposition. (I suppose the
> editor could have altered that, but it seems unlikely.) You could
> play the unaccompanied low F in a different, hushed sort of way to
> make this moment work better.
>
> >--- As for bar 298-299 it has given me headaches trying to figure
> >out what to do with it. It just doesn't feel right. The whole
> >phrase is descending in the parallel place in the exposition. Here
> >suddenly, in the recapitulation bar 298 it jumps up one octave in
> >the same manner as we recognize from other places in the 1803
> >edition.
>
> But again, look at the orchestra. This time, just violins and
> violas, *higher*, accompanying the change of octave after the first
> beat of 298. And this time, the orchestra needs the low clarinet
> for the bass of the first inversion chord at the resolution in bar
> 300. The clarinet's concert C# is taken up by only the cellos on
> the last beat of that bar as we (clarinet players, I mean) return to
> the soprano line -- which I find a wonderful touch. Sure, the
> switch of octaves in 298 is a surprise -- but that sort of effect is
> often a positive feature of this particular work.
>
> And as I say, FDFD *need not* be felt as a defect. (Could you think
> of her a little differently, and let her into your heart, perhaps?-)
>
> >I want to go with your suggestion to play it one octave lower and
> >change bar 299 so it becomes identical, or similar to bar 111 in
> >the exposition, playing down to low D. The 16th in bar 299 would
> >be: b.g.f.low d.f.g.b.d.f.g.b.d.f.d.b.d./c.
>
> I wrote:
>
> > > And the same notes appear 4 bars later at the beginning of 299,
> > > and *could* be repeated an octave lower at the *end* of 299. (I
> y try this the week after next when I have some performances
> > > in Spain.)
>
> ...so my suggestion was rather to play the last four sixteenths of
> the bar as FDFD instead of FGFG, opening my own heart a little
> further.
>
> But imagining it again, I think that that might compromise the
> feeling of contrary motion between clarinet and orchestra by going
> lower than the resolution in 300....
>
> We'll see.
>
> >I don't know if the Eisenbrandt has a vent hole, but I can't see
> >how you can do without one since the pointed bell requires a
> >longer tube than a normal bell because of the knee joint. I can't
> >remember if Eric's low B was one hertz flat or sharp, but it was
> >well in the ballpark of perfection or the idea wouldn't have came
> >up.
>
> It seems churlish of me to correct your English, which is *so* good,
> especially considering my own lack of talent linguistically, but I
> think your phrase 'pointed bell' is misleading. I think you mean,
> 'angled bell'. 'Pointed bell' suggests a bell that ends in a point,
> which *isn't* what we want for this one! (For those out of their
> depth, this particular bell is quasi-spherical, and sticks out at 90
> degrees to the rest of the instrument.)
>
> My point;-) about the vent hole was: if Eric (sorry to have spelt
> him wrong, BTW) can make a clarinet that goes down to low B *without
> a vent hole* -- which is how you could think of his instrument, if
> the low B is perfect -- why couldn't he make a clarinet that goes
> down to low C without a vent hole?
>
> Because if he could in fact have done that, then the existence of
> the low B has no particular significance, being merely a byproduct
> of Eric's design decision.
>
> The crucial thing is: how 'forced' is it to have a vent on this
> particular sort of instrument? If it is forced, then the way is
> clearer for this low B stuff. If not, well, it's much more
> speculative, I'd say.
>
> The main difficulty with doing it without a vent, and a shorter
> instrument, would I suppose be that the keywork down to the lowest
> hole might need to go over onto the knee-joint. That might not be
> impossible -- think of basset horns, after all.
>
> Tony
> --
>
> ... Q: Why can't mathematicians tell the difference between
> Halloween and Christmas? A: Because OCT 31 @-----.
>
>
>
>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
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