Klarinet Archive - Posting 000323.txt from 2000/06

From: "Alf Hörberg" <alf.horberg@-----.se>
Subj: SV: [kl] Alf Horberg's comments
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:34:17 -0400

Tony, the reason why I find the repeated FDFD annoying is that it's so
unlike Mozart to change a beautiful line in a motif from the exposition in
such a simple way. I believe strongly that it's a typical trick from the
editor when he gets stuck and can't go all the way. The same with bar 299
but I'll return to that. Also, he's landing on a seventh twice in a row.
Normally he would like to leave that 7th as quickly as possible with a nice
cadence: F...B...C, instead of: F...F...C.
--- As for bar 298-299 it has given me headaches trying to figure out what
to do with it. It just doesn't feel right. The whole phrase is descending in
the parallel place in the exposition. Here suddenly, in the recapitulation
bar 298 it jumps up one octave in the same manner as we recognize from other
places in the 1803 edition. I want to go with your suggestion to play it one
octave lower and change bar 299 so it becomes identical, or similar to bar
111 in the exposition, playing down to low D. The 16th in bar 299 would be:
b.g.f.low d.f.g.b.d.f.g.b.d.f.d.b.d./c.

I don't know if the Eisenbrandt has a vent hole, but I can't see how you can
do without one since the pointed bell requires a longer tube than a normal
bell because of the knee joint.
I can't remember if Eric's low B was one hertz flat or sharp, but it was
well in the ballpark of perfection or the idea wouldn't have came up.

Cheers
Alf

----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Pay <Tony@-----.uk>
Subject: SV: [kl] Alf Horberg's comments

> Alf Horberg wrote:
>
> > Dan, if you followed Tony's and mine short conversation you noticed
> > that I wrote the wrong bar number in my first message. Just to be
> > sure, the right bar numbers are: 1st. mov. bar 295 should be similar,
> > with the same steps as bar 107. 3rd. mov. bar 146-153 should all be
> > in the lowest octave, with low B-natural in bar 147. I just want to
> > stress the fact that Eric is the one who should have all the credit
> > for the discovery. I basically just happened to be there.
> >
> > > I am so excited by Alf's statement which dealt with the possibility
> > > of a low B-natural on Stadler's basset clarinet that I cannot wait
> > > until I get home to examine the places he mentioned in his note.
> > > Am anxious to get a feeling about the use of this note at the places
> > > he suggests might be appropriate. Absolutely sensational
> > > information!! Dan Leeson
>
> I'm not getting any of these posts, as my ISP is recovering from a DOS
> attack. But I pulled this off 'latest posts'.
>
> I didn't find, as Alf did, the repeated FDFD in 295 irritating. After
> all, it's motivic (being a repeated descending third) as I was arguing a
> couple of weeks ago. And the same notes appear 4 bars later at the
> beginning of 299, and *could* be repeated an octave lower at the *end*
> of 299. (I may try this the week after next when I have some
> performances in Spain.)
>
> (This recurrence of those notes in 299 BTW, Alf, is why I got confused
> by your post. I went straight to 299 because that was the bar I thought
> you were talking about, and failed to see that I wasn't looking at
> what you'd correctly written as 295, even though you'd *incorrectly*
> written 102 instead of 107;-)
>
> The bit in the last movement I'd certainly go along with if I had a low
> B. It's nicer in the lower octave, and sounds much better with the low
> B.
>
> But I'd like to ask a bit more about the B on the instrument. The
> engraving that led to Erich's design is too small for us to determine
> whether there was a vent hole for the low C.
>
> So perhaps Erich found when he carried it out that the design needed a
> vent to make the low C satisfactory. But then, the obvious question is,
> why doesn't that argument apply to the low B? Why, if serviced by a
> key, wouldn't *that* need a vent? You said the low B was "perfect".
>
> Or perhaps he put a vent in because he was following a precedent. There
> is an instrument that looks just like the engraving: the Eisenbrandt C
> basset clarinet. Does that have a vent? Does that vent make a low B
> feasible?
>
> Finally, how do you play the B? With your toe?-)
>
> Toeknee
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE www.gmn.com/artists/welcome.asp
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
> ... To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.
>
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