Klarinet Archive - Posting 000285.txt from 2000/06

From: "Tony Wakefield" <tony-wakefield@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Pat Metheny interview regarding Kenny G.
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 05:51:57 -0400

I whole-heartedly agree with Pat, and I (for one), am grateful to Roger for
posting this.

How can we change/educate/inform the <whole> of the rest of the planet,
how to spot <real talent>,and at the <moment> of being
appreciative, to be able to be constructively critical in order to <know>
what <is> talent, and what <isn`t>. In order to do this, surely it is
necessary to firstly ascertain if the artiste (or anybody - we at the moment
are discussing music) is competent on his/her chosen instrument - the
musicianship/tone/aural liasing etc etc. Secondly, the music, i.e. the
composition. I would much prefer to listen to a poor composition played
beautifully - good technique/good tone etc. than the other way round. The
aesthetics, the moment of being <able> to appreciate that another human
being is pouring his <heart> out for me overrides all other <new age
appreciation/criticism>. It is the inability to appreciate this, in this new
age/modern/20th cent - call it what you like, which is the evasive
ingredient lacking in today`s music production/performing/recording etc.

But we have to seriously consider the history of musicians & music
production. Has it always been pretty much the same? Some very high profile
performers and composers in their day wooed their audiences with sex in
addition to their talent. It could be argued that a lot of their "talent" -
reams of semiquaver after semiquaver, was nothing more than "insincere
waffle", designed purely to entice the ladies into bed. In some cases the
history of syphilis and music suggests nothing else other than that.

Composers also get into the act. Is not Mr G superimposed onto Satchmo a
sort of <popular version> of Ben. Britten superimposing <his> ideas onto
Henry Purcell`s theme, to become "The Young Person`s guide to the
Orchestra". You may consider that to be a vile comparison, but I believe
musicians need to consider what is important to their own well-being,
viz-a-viz aesthetics or money: amateurism or professionalism: creativity or
pastiche. There has to be room for it all - until the music appreciation
educators start to infiltrate the "music business" and begin to
teach/instruct/advise what balances may be administered when profit is an
important part of music company structure.

FOOTNOTE
I have introduced the saxophone, via Mr G, to students of mine, who have
progressed to a stage where they no longer include him in their repertoire.
So he has his uses!!!!!!!

My 2 1/2 pence worth.
Tony W.
----- Original Message -----
From: <rgarrett@-----.edu>
Subject: [kl] Pat Metheny interview regarding Kenny G.

> Sorry for any language that Metheny lays out, but this was sent to me, and
> knowning the interest that has taken place several times on this list
> regarding Kenny G......I thought it might be interesting.
>
> RG
>
> Subject: Don't sugar coat it, Pat[long]
> check this out from patmethenygroup.com.
> Date:
> Jun 05 2000
>
> Subject:
> Controversy and Kenny G
> Question to Pat Metheny:
> Pat, could you tell us your opinion about
> Kenny G - it appears you were quoted as
> being less than enthusiastic about him and
> his music. I would say that most of the
> serious music listeners in the world would
> not find your opinion surprising or unlikely -
> but you were vocal about it for the first time.
> You are generally supportive of other
> musicians it seems.
> Pat's Answer:
> kenny g is not a musician i really had much
> of an opinion about at all until recently.
> there was not much about the way he
> played that interested me one way or the
> other either live or on records. i first heard
> him a number of years ago playing as a
> sideman with jeff lorber when they opened a
> concert for my band. my impression was
> that he was someone who had spent a fair
> amount of time listening to the more pop
> oriented sax players of that time, like grover
> washington or david sanborn, but was not
> really an advanced player, even in that
> style. he had major rhythmic problems and
> his harmonic and melodic vocabulary was
> extremely limited, mostly to pentatonic
> based and blues-lick derived patterns, and
> he basically exhibited only a rudimentary
> understanding of how to function as a
> professional soloist in an ensemble - lorber
> was basically playing him off the bandstand
> in terms of actual music. but he did show a
> knack for connecting to the basest
> impulses of the large crowd by deploying
> his two or three most effective licks (holding
> long notes and playing fast runs - never
> mind that there were lots of harmonic clams
> in them) at the keys moments to elicit a
> powerful crowd reaction (over and over
> again) . the other main thing i noticed was
> that he also, as he does to this day, play
> horribly out of tune - consistently sharp.
>
> of course, i am aware of what he has
> played since, the success it has had, and
> the controversy that has surrounded him
> among musicians and serious listeners.
> this controversy seems to be largely fueled
> by the fact that he sells an enormous
> amount of records while not being anywhere
> near a really great player in relation to the
> standards that have been set on his
> instrument over the past sixty or seventy
> years.
>
> and honestly, there is no small amount of
> envy involved from musicians who see one
> of their fellow players doing so well
> financially, especially when so many of
> them who are far superior as improvisors
> and musicians in general have trouble just
> making a living. there must be hundreds, if
> not thousands of sax players around the
> world who are simply better improvising
> musicians than kenny g on his chosen
> instruments. it would really surprise me if
> even he disagreed with that statement.
>
> having said that, it has gotten me to
> thinking lately why so many jazz musicians
> (myself included, given the right "bait" of a
> question, as i will explain later) and
> audiences have gone so far as to say that
> what he is playing is not even jazz at all.
>
> stepping back for a minute, if we examine
> the way he plays, especially if one can
> remove the actual improvising from the often
> mundane background environment that it is
> delivered in, we see that his saxophone
> style is in fact clearly in the tradition of the
> kind of playing that most reasonably
> objective listeners WOULD normally
> quantify as being jazz. it's just that as jazz
> or even as music in a general sense, with
> these standards in mind, it is simply not up
> to the level of playing that we historically
> associate with professional improvising
> musicians. so, lately i have been
> advocating that we go ahead and just
> include it under the word jazz - since pretty
> much of the rest of the world OUTSIDE of
> the jazz community does anyway - and let
> the chips fall where they may.
>
> and after all, why he should be judged by
> any other standard, why he should be
> exempt from that that all other serious
> musicians on his instrument are judged by
> if they attempt to use their abilities in an
> improvisational context playing with a
> rhythm section as he does? he SHOULD
> be compared to john coltrane or wayne
> shorter, for instance, on his abilities (or lack
> thereof) to play the soprano saxophone and
> his success (or lack thereof) at finding a
> way to deploy that instrument in an
> ensemble in order to accurately gauge his
> abilities and put them in the context of his
> instrument's legacy and potential.
>
> as a composer of even eighth note based
> music, he SHOULD be compared to herbie
> hancock, horace silver or even grover
> washington. suffice it to say, on all above
> counts, at this point in his development, he
> wouldn't fare well.
>
> but, like i said at the top, this relatively
> benign view was all "until recently".
>
> not long ago, kenny g put out a recording
> where he overdubbed himself on top of a
> 30+ year old louis armstrong record, the
> track "what a wonderful world". with this
> single move, kenny g became one of the
> few people on earth i can say that i really
> can't use at all - as a man, for his incredible
> arrogance to even consider such a thing,
> and as a musician, for presuming to share
> the stage with the single most important
> figure in our music.
>
> this type of musical necrophilia - the
> technique of overdubbing on the preexisting
> tracks of already dead performers - was
> weird when natalie cole did it with her dad
> on "unforgettable" a few years ago, but it
> was her dad. when tony bennett did it with
> billie holiday it was bizarre, but we are
> talking about two of the greatest singers of
> the 20th century who were on roughly the
> same level of artistic accomplishment.
> when larry coryell presumed to overdub
> himself on top of a wes montgomery track, i
> lost a lot of the respect that i ever had for
> him - and i have to seriously question the
> fact that i did have respect for someone
> who could turn out to have have such
> unbelievably bad taste and be that
> disrespectful to one of my personal heroes.
>
> but when kenny g decided that it was
> appropriate for him to defile the music of the
> man who is probably the greatest jazz
> musician that has ever lived by spewing his
> lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune,
> noodling, wimped out, fucked up playing all
> over one of the great louis's tracks (even
> one of his lesser ones), he did something
> that i would not have imagined possible. he,
> in one move, through his unbelievably
> pretentious and calloused musical decision
> to embark on this most cynical of musical
> paths, shit all over the graves of all the
> musicians past and present who have
> risked their lives by going out there on the
> road for years and years developing their
> own music inspired by the standards of
> grace that louis armstrong brought to every
> single note he played over an amazing
> lifetime as a musician. by disrespecting
> louis, his legacy and by default, everyone
> who has ever tried to do something positive
> with improvised music and what it can be,
> kenny g has created a new low point in
> modern culture - something that we all
> should be totally embarrassed about - and
> afraid of. we ignore this, "let it slide", at our
> own peril.
>
> his callous disregard for the larger issues of
> what this crass gesture implies is
> exacerbated by the fact that the only
> reason he possibly have for doing
> something this inherently wrong (on both
> human and musical terms) was for the
> record sales and the money it would bring.
>
> since that record came out - in protest, as
> insigificant as it may be, i encourage
> everyone to boycott kenny g recordings,
> concerts and anything he is associated
> with. if asked about kenny g, i will diss him
> and his music with the same passion that
> is in evidence in this little essay.
>
> normally, i feel that musicians all have a
> hard enough time, regardless of their level,
> just trying to play good and don't really
> benefit from public criticism, particularly
> from their fellow players. but, this is
> different.
>
> there ARE some things that are sacred -
> and amongst any musician that has ever
> attempted to address jazz at even the most
> basic of levels, louis armstrong and his
> music is hallowed ground. to ignore this
> trespass is to agree that NOTHING any
> musician has attempted to do with their life
> in music has any intrinsic value - and i
> refuse to do that. (i am also amazed that
> there HASN'T already been an outcry
> against this among music critics - where
> ARE they on this?????!?!?!?!- , magazines,
> etc.). everything i said here is exactly the
> same as what i would say to gorelick if i
> ever saw him in person. and if i ever DO see
> him anywhere, at any function - he WILL
> get a piece of my mind and (maybe a guitar
> wrapped around his head.)
>
> NOTE: this post is partially in response to
> the comments that people have made
> regarding a short video interview excerpt
> with me that was posted on the internet
> taken from a tv show for young people (kind
> of like MTV) in poland where i was asked to
> address 8 to 11 year old kids on terms that
> they could understand about jazz.
>
> while enthusiastically describing the virtues
> of this great area of music, i was
> encouraging the kids to find and listen to
> some of the greats in the music and not to
> get confused by the sometimes
> overwhelming volume of music that falls
> under the jazz umbrella. i went on to say
> that i think that for instance, "kenny g plays
> the dumbest music on the planet" -
> something that all 8 to 11 year kids on the
> planet already intrinsically know, as anyone
> who has ever spent any time around kids
> that age could confirm - so it gave us some
> common ground for the rest of the
> discussion. (ADDENDUM: the only thing
> wrong with the statement that i made was
> that i did not include the rest of the known
> universe.)
>
> the fact that this clip was released so far
> out of the context that it was delivered in is
> a drag, but it is now done. (it's unauthorized
> release out of context like that is
> symptomatic of the new electronically
> interconnected culture that we now live in -
> where pretty much anything anyone
> anywhere has ever said or done has the
> potential to become common public
> property at any time.) i was surprised by
> the polish people putting this clip up so far
> away from the use that it was intended
> * really just for the attention - with no
>
> explanation of the show it was made for -
> they (the polish people in general) used to
> be so hip and would have been unlikely
> candidates to do something like that before,
> but i guess everything is changing there like
> it is everywhere else.
>
> the only other thing that surprised me in the
> aftermath of the release of this little
> interview is that ANYONE would be even a
> little bit surprised that i would say such a
> thing, given the reality of mr. g's music. this
> makes me want to go practice about 10
> times harder, because that suggests to me
> that i am not getting my own musical
> message across clearly enough - which to
> me, in every single way and intention is
> diametrically opposed to what Kenny G
> seems to be after.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Roger Garrett
> Professor of Clarinet
> Director, Concert Band and Symphonic Winds
> Advisor, Recording Studio
> Illinois Wesleyan University
> School of Music
> Bloomington, IL 61702-2900
> (309) 556-3268

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org