Klarinet Archive - Posting 000764.txt from 2000/05

From: George Kidder <gkidder@-----.org>
Subj: Re: [kl] Eb on bell
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 05:04:08 -0400

The utility of resonance fingerings, which are always changes in the
pattern of open and closed holes BELOW the hole that is the primary vent
for a note, says to me that the lower part of the clarinet does in fact
influence the sound. Some of these fingerings (e.g., closing the lowest Eb
key as part of a resonance fingering for "open" G) are at great distances
from the primary vent. So a question for Dan - in your experience, do the
upper ("left hand") notes sound or feel any different when played on a
standard clarinet then they do with a basset lower joint?

At 09:42 AM 05/15/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Well, I have exhausted whatever modest technical knowledge I have on the
>whole subject so I can't comment any more than I have. But the
>discussion is a good one so I hope that someone better equipped than me
>will add some clarity to it.
>
>Dan
>
>Roger Shilcock wrote:
>>
>> Dan,
>> If this was absolutely so, then no one would ever bother to open a hole
>> further down the instrument with the intention of correcting the tuning on
>> some note. I think you are taking the clarinet to be closer to an ideal
>> cylindrical tube than it is. In particular, you are implying that the
>> clarinet behaves as if the piece of tube beyond the hole used to produce a
>> given tone has been annihilated, and I doubt whether this is the case. I
>> can't quote any acoustics texts on
>> this, but probably someone on this list can.
>> Yours,
>> Roger S.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 15 May 2000, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>>
>> > Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 06:43:14 -0700
>> > From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
>> > Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>> > To: klarinet@-----.org
>> > Subject: Re: [kl] Eb on bell
>> >
>> > Roger, I think the answer can be determined empirically. There are a
>> > few clarinettists who have two different lower joints for their
>> > instruments. One such joint is traditional and permits the instrument
>> > to descend to the low E-natural. The other joint makes the instrument
>> > into a basset clarinet by virtue of the fact that it permits descent to
>> > low C. Either joint fits on an unaltered upper joint which remains
>> > unmodified.
>> >
>> > In the two such instruments that I have seen, there was no perceptible
>> > difference in the placement of any tone holes down to and including low
>> > E, but it is possible that the difference was so slight as to be not
>> > noticeable without some sophisticated measurement.
>> >
>> > However, and it is a very BIG however, there is clearly no difference at
>> > all in the tone hole spacing for the upper joint. Yet your suggestion
>> > is that adding a low E-flat to a clarinet might require a relocation of
>> > ALL tone holes, something with which I am not in agreement.
>> >
>> > To do as you suggest appears to me to violate physics. A note is at a
>> > certain pitch because of the length of the vibrating air column.
>> > Changing that length for all notes (which is synonymous with what you
>> > say) is going to change the pitch of every note. It is not a matter of
>> > proportion but of absolute length.
>> >
>> > Roger Shilcock wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Dan L.,
>> > > Surely an instrument built to low E flat and one built to low E should
>> > > have
>> > > all their holes in slightly different places?
>> > > Roger S.
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, 13 May 2000, Daniel Leeson wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 12:31:06 -0700
>> > > > From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
>> > > > Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>> > > > To: klarinet@-----.org
>> > > > Subject: Re: [kl] Eb on bell
>> > > >
>> > > > The lowest tone of a clarinet is created by having the air column
exit
>> > > > the instrument out of the bell. Thus, on a standard clarinet,
fingering
>> > > > low e creates the lowest tone by virtue of the fact that
depressing the
>> > > > e key closes the lowest hole on the instrument and the air column
that
>> > > > is created is the longest.
>> > > >
>> > > > To get a low E-flat, the instrument must be longer and you need an
extra
>> > > > hole somewhere below the hole that is closed when low e is
fingered. On
>> > > > a soprano clarinet that plays a low e-flat, that extra hole (and
pad to
>> > > > close it so that the air goes out the bell) is on the body of the
>> > > > instrument which has been made longer to accomodate the hole.
>> > > >
>> > > > On some bass clarinets, that extra length is accomplished by
putting the
>> > > > e-flat hole (and pad to close it) on the bell. On a bass clarinet
that
>> > > > extends to low c, the holes for e, e-flat, d, and d-flat are on
the body
>> > > > of the instrument and the hole which when closed gives the lowest
tone
>> > > > or low c is on the bell.
>> > > >
>> > > > In the case of the instrument you speak of, the manufacturer had two
>> > > > choices. Extend the wood long enough to put the hole for the
e-flat on
>> > > > the body of the horn or else to put it on the bell. It makes better
>> > > > financcial sense to put it on the bell because that way he uses
the same
>> > > > body for a bass clarinet that goes down to low e as for one that goes
>> > > > down to low e-flat; i.e., its a little more keywork and a
different bell
>> > > > rather than a different body.
>> > > >
>> > > > William Wright wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Several auctions have described a bass clarinet as having
"Eb on
>> > > > > the bell". I assume this means that the keywork extends to the
bell
>> > > > > with a bridge of some sort. Are all bass clarinets built this way?
>> > > > > And a related question: does a bass clarinet change into
some other
>> > > > > standard instrument if you replace the neck with a simple barrel
and the
>> > > > > curved bell with an 'ordinary' bell.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thank you,
>> > > > > Bill
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
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>> > > > --
>> > > > ***************************
>> > > > ** Dan Leeson **
>> > > > ** leeson0@-----.net **
>> > > > ***************************
>> > > >
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>> > --
>> > ***************************
>> > ** Dan Leeson **
>> > ** leeson0@-----.net **
>> > ***************************
>> >
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>> >
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>
>--
>***************************
>** Dan Leeson **
>** leeson0@-----.net **
>***************************
>
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-----------------------
George Kidder
MDIBL
gkidder@-----.org

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