Klarinet Archive - Posting 000732.txt from 2000/05
From: Richard Bush <rbushidioglot@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Re: Paper-Trained, was Bass Clarinet, Bass Clef in A
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:21:33 -0400
Hi Maria,
I too should make same further clarifications. I sure hope I didn't offend.
"Marcia S. Bundi" wrote:
> Dear Richard,
>
> My rather off-hand remark needs clarification! Dr. Maxine Ramey wasn't
> insulting improv. players at all; rather, it was self-deprecatory as she
> and a bunch of other professors got up to play "Clarinet Polka" (from
> paper!) at a jazz venue with the local jazz clarinetist. He wanted them
> to join him in improvisation, and that prompted the remark. I've never
> heard her improvise, but I live several hours' drive from Missoula and
> don't get over that often. She's an excellent player whom I've heard play
> in several concerts and recitals. She was a student of Elsa Verdehr.
I hope it was understood that I was, in one way defending those who are
"paper-trained." I didn't pick up on the fact that Dr. Maxine Ramey was
being self-deprecating. Needless to say, the term is a good one and one I
will probably use myself with a wink of the eye.
>
>
> I totally agree with your opinions about professionals and others needing
> all sorts of different skills, and I too thank God that there are places
> for all of us!
>
> As to the original thread, I don't think that *all* professionals need to
> be able to improvise -- it depends on which venue they play and what is
> demanded by that particular job. To expect that *all* professionals be
> able to do *all* kinds of playing at those same professional levels is
> unreal and unfair.
I couldn't agree more, but there are many who will pit one faction against
the other. Again, this is totally unfair. It is simply comparing apples to
oranges. What is most needed, and always needed, is a respect and
appreciation for those particular skills that make good music.
> I'm sure that these people *can* and *do* all kinds of
> different playing, but make their name and their living playing from
> their particular strength.
>
> Transposing is not the same thing as improvisation! Now, if I could just
> learn to transpose bass clef in A . . .
Actually, Marcia, I think there are many common elements that apply to
improvising and transposing. One needs to be in touch with his or her
instrument enough to "pre-hear" what will be coming out as the next interval
jump. This is important to the player so that he will land on that note with
precision. If one is transposing, one most see the interval on the page,
pre-hear it, translate that to the fingering and note being played and THEN
make the necessary finger change to create a parallel and accurate
transposition while living with this dual and parallel set of tonalities.
(God, I hope I'm not too confusing in my thoughts.)
An improvising musician, while not dealing with the printed interval, is
dealing with a preconceived and mentally imaged interval. This too must
translate through the fingers and learned finger patterns to that particular
note he next wishes to play.
Whether classically trained or jazz trained, both instrumentalists rely upon
learned patterns, scales, arpeggios, etc. to get the music out.
I have a particular problem, and am probably prejudiced against the Suzuki
(sp?) method for some of the above reasons. I feel that the printed
information, the recognition of intervals as they are found on the printed
page, never become a part of and intrinsic with the motor patterns. I also
believe that the aspects of counting from printed music are ignored for too
long a period in the developing musicians life. I feel that the player
becomes all to dependent upon keenly developed aural skills at the expense
of developing the eye-hand coordination required to read, count and play at
the same time.
I'm sure there will be those who will riddle me with shot gun pellets for
these thoughts.
Again, I appreciate your response.
>
>
> Marcia
> Great Falls, MT
>
> On Sat, 13 May 2000 13:46:45 -0600 Richard Bush <rbushidioglot@-----.com>
> writes:
> >Dear Marcia,
> >
> >Being "paper-trained" is good if one wishes to become a member of a fine
> >symphony orchestra and play some of the world's finest music.
> >
> >Different musical skills are required for different kinds of music.
> >Improvisation takes totally different skills. All kinds of good music
> can be
> >created by those who are "paper-trained" AND by those who can create
> >musical excitement within a nano-second.
> >
> >I can't help but ask you because "One of [your] UM professors" voices
> such
> >strong opinions, why isn't he either playing with a major symphony or
> turning the world on fire with his great improv?
> >
> >Different kinds of fish in different sized gold fish bowls seem to
> require
> >different kinds of food. Thank God, someone understood the need for
> different sized gold fish bowls!
> >
> >"Marcia S. Bundi" wrote:
> >
> >> One of the UM professors described us as "paper-trained."
> >>
> >> Marcia
> >> Great Falls, MT
> >>
>
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