Klarinet Archive - Posting 000240.txt from 2000/05

From: Roger Shilcock <roger.shilcock@-----.uk>
Subj: RE: [kl] Bells & Whistles
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:30:51 -0400

I think it's the "would" which sticks in the ear or eye here. This looks
very like assuming what you want to prove.
Roger S.

On Wed, 3 May 2000, Topper wrote:

> Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:56:34 -0500
> From: Topper <leo_g@-----.com>
> Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: RE: [kl] Bells & Whistles
>
> At 09:04 AM -0700 5/3/00, Kevin Fay (LCA) wrote:
> >David B. Niethamer asked:
> >
> ><<<In the vague recesses of what's left of my memory, I recall seeing Benade
> >at some conference or other with a bell that had very little taper on the
> >inside. . . I also have a similar vague memory of the Selmer Mazzeo
> >clarinets using a variation of this bell.
> >
> > . . . how can a bell ring - on the *outside* mind you, and furthest away
> >from the mouthpiece where the sound
> >is generated - have an effect on the sound? I know that different bells
> >affect the sound/tuning of clarinets, but it has to be in the bore and
> >taper, since the wood is too thick to vibrate in any significant way, no?>>>
>
> >Beats me. As I suggested in my earlier post, I suspect that it doesn't have
> >anything to do with the metal bell ring at all -- that the difference in
> >sound is likely the result of cutting off the last 1/3 inch of the bell,
> >effectively making it shorter. OTOH, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the
> >clarinet bell actually acted as a bell for this note (similar to a trumpet
> >bell). You can order several different bell tapers and diameters for most
> >artist-level trumpets, so it would surprise me that there wouldn't be a
> >noticeable difference in sound when changing the bell dimensions.
> >
> >The bells that I'm speaking of were not Selmer Mazzeos -- I've played those
> >only in their Bundy incarnation, and therefore all bets are off -- but
> >Buffet R-13 bells that were shortened in this manner by an older friend of
> >mine who went to college in Boston in the '60s. (May have been a drug
> >thing, who knows?). Either way, putting his shortened R-13 bell on *my*
> >R-13 resulted in a different-sounding B natural. Might even have been
> >"better," in the sense that the tone quality was closer to the notes around
> >it -- but not by enough for me to spend any money having it done to my
> >horns.
> >
> >Perhaps the effect is not unlike one we've already noted here on the list --
> >how the response of your reed will change if you hack off from the butt end.
> >I have occasion to do this, as I use Bb reeds on my eefer. Being the
> >curious type, I usually try the cut down reeds before and after on my Bb;
> >there is indeed a difference.
> >
> >. . . which leads to the anecdote/tip du jour. First the tip -- I use
> >ordinary garden pruning shears to cut down the butt ends of my Bb --> Eb
> >reeds. Works fast, doesn't make a lot of mess. (It might pinch the fibers,
> >but I don't care.) Anyway, the other night I was standing at the kitchen
> >sink cutting the butts off a box of Vandoren V-12s when my wife (an oboe
> >player) ambled up.
> >
> >"Honey" she asked, "doesn't it work better if you clip the *other* end?"
> >
> >Sigh.
> >
> >kjf
> >
>
>
> I suspect that the ring of the bell does make a difference because it adds
> mass at a physical point that has an overall effect on the frequency and
> response and would actually have even more effect if the tenon and socket
> did not have the damping factor of the tenon cork. In fact a one-piece
> greenline clarinet will radiate quite differently than a carefully
> duplicated 4-section instrument. Add a mouthpiece and barrel which uses a
> nickel-silver tuning slide to it(doing away with the mpc cork) and you
> would get even more of a difference. Add a ribbed post design and slightly
> heavier rod stock and keys and get even more.
>
> Getting the staff and funding to obtain the equipment to prove this would
> be more od a challenge than finding a human being who could blow notes
> consistently enough to make the measurement accurate. So to do this it
> would be plausible to construct a machine which mimmicks the human
> embochure and wind - an anatomically corrrect computor-controlled head and
> bellows drawn up on a cad 3-d engineering wireframe.
>
>
> The point would be is where in the range of human hearing and under what
> conditions does this make an audible difference enough to warrant design
> changes and are they desireable ones, and which changes are worthwhile
> improvements?
>
>
>
>
> Cheers, Leo
>
> http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/leo_g@-----.com/
> "You Take The High Notes" http://helius.carroll.com/p/leo_g/ There is a
> difference between "dealers" and musicians that love not only the sound of
> music but the tools which make it possible for people to play music. It's
> important to set things free so they may ultimately find their way to
> their intended parties. I am especially interested in Musical Instrument
> History and technical data. Please email me with interesting links. Thank
> you:-) Leo
>
>
>
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