Klarinet Archive - Posting 001061.txt from 2000/02
From: Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Opinions
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 14:27:59 -0500
Not only am I innocent (and virtuous, I might add), I don't feel we have
a disagreement here. What I said, and continue to say about people on
this list giving opinions that have no basis in fact, is (even by your
admission) the truth. I have not said here that it is a bad thing to
do, only that it happens.
Now sometimes, those statements of opinion are, in my opinion, so
egregious that the person making them should be killed, or at least
maimed in some gruesome fashion. Sometimes I don't think so. And if
those assertions about death for transgressors were the issue, then
maybe we would have some kind of disagreement. But that is not what
started this.
Someone quoted or paraphrased me as saying what I said above (and which
I fully admit to and you do too), and you asked "What had I wrought?"
(which was very biblical by the way). My statement about people making
cockeyed assertions on this list was carried by that original poster to
an extreme position that somehow got blamed on me.
I am innocent (and virtuous) of extensions made to my assertion that
people make all sorts of claims on this list that have no evidence to
support them. I don't suggest that this should stop (though I
personally don't care for it) and I will maim, injure, and kill those
guilty of egregious statements, but I stand by my original claim.
As I said, I am innocent (and virtuous).
Dan
Neil Leupold wrote:
>
> --- Daniel Leeson <leeson0@-----.net> wrote:
>
> > What are you yelling at me for? I have said and continue to say that
> > many people on this list give all sorts of opinions which have no basis
> > in fact behind them. So if someone takes that idea and runs in a
> > direction that you happen not to like, somehow that's my fault???
> > Go figure.
>
> Ah ha, playing the innocent. Careful Dan, or I might have Mark
> dredge the database and pull up a few of the diatribes which have
> issued forth from your keyboard over the years on the subject of
> substantiating opinions with facts.
>
> I'm kidding, of course, but besides, I'm not yelling at you or any-
> body else. It just concerns me that those who are not normally in-
> clined to ask a question or post a response will continue to remain
> silent for fear of retribution or, worse, "looking dumb." People
> are self-conscious, even in cyberspace (including me, believe it or
> not) and we're a lesser forum of discussion when members of the list
> instinctively suppress their input. Sitting in a class of MBA stu-
> dents at a Big 10 university, I am still surprised at how timid and
> reserved my classmates are when it comes time to debate an issue.
> They're not stupid people. In fact, every one of them is quite bril-
> liant, but there is this unspoken mantra -- more intimidating than a
> gun pointed at one's head -- that one shall not utter a rebuttal if
> there is the slightest risk of looking naive or impertinent in front
> of their peers (not to mention the professor). The irony escapes no-
> body that most of one's learning occurs through interaction with their
> peers, and yet these extremely bright people continue to shoot them-
> selves in the feet by remaining silent. Surely we can all see the
> connection between this phenomenon and the dynamics of Klarinet.
>
> I have to say, some of the most enjoyable times I've had on
> the list have been when a young junior high or high school
> student has asked about one of the fundamentals of playing,
> and several people chimed back with all sorts of ideas and
> viewpoints based on their personal experiences. There's no-
> thing more inspiring than seeing a young player shooting for
> excellence, asking questions, the answers to which could lead
> them to the very heights of the music profession over time.
> Yet the less experienced ones are the same people who cower
> most fearfully at the keyboard, never knowing if it's "okay"
> to ask their question about this reed or that ligature, or
> darn it all, why doesn't my chalumeau c-sharp play in tune?
> This isn't speculation on my part -- they've said so them-
> selves publicly on the list.
>
> And so, I disagree not only with the idea that all statements should
> be based in fact or codified theory, but more so with the *assertion*
> to that effect. We only stand to lose when such an attitude prevails.
> Discussions might not be as focused or accurate as some of us would
> like, but hey, I've seen some pretty silly and disjunct exchanges take
> place between the most sophisticated and highly educated members of the
> group. The inexperienced and timid do not have a corner on the absurdity
> market.
>
> We're mostly faceless fonts to each other on a computer screen, but
> everybody is listening. The irrational paranoia that somebody will
> think we're ignorant or irrelevant is as real on Klarinet as it is
> in the corporeal world of tangibility. So, in my opinion, we should
> take it easy on the pedantism and the restrictive viewpoints concern-
> ing the appropriateness of any given submission to the list. Lest
> we forget, there is a delete key on each of our keyboards, and that
> is the only allowable arbiter (beyond Mark's discretion concerning
> profane or needlessly disruptive rabble-rousers).
>
> -- Neil
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
> http://im.yahoo.com
>
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--
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** Dan Leeson **
** leeson0@-----.net **
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