Klarinet Archive - Posting 000194.txt from 1999/12

From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subj: Re: [kl] re: playing the Clarinet from behind the student
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:05:22 -0500

On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:31:12 EST, LeliaLoban@-----.com said:

> Some people on the list expressed skepticism that music teachers often
> get accused of sexually abusing students.

I think it was just that I asked, what was the frequency with which this
happened? I don't remember anyone expressing skepticism that it
actually did on occasion happen.

And in response to the answer to my question, I think I was the person
who then concluded:

> you'd have either to behave quite stupidly or to be *very* unlucky to
> be taken to court over a truly innocent action of the sort I
> described.

....as in:

> > Let's say this occurs in front of other students, because I do
> > understand that it might be inadvisable in private -- after all,
> > even doctors try to make sure that someone else is in attendance
> > when they carry out examinations.
> >
> > You say that if I explain to the student what I want to do (and why)
> > and give him/her the free option to decline, and then on the
> > student's acceptance do exactly what I said I would do;
> >
> > then the fact that I had explained my intent, in front of others,
> > and moreover explained that it was 'innocent' in the sense that the
> > described action to him/her was done for the reason I stated and no
> > other, and that the student had accepted that, would have no bearing
> > on my culpability if he/she subsequently decided to change her mind,
> > and then interpreted his/her acceptance of the contact as being the
> > result of threat, pressure or harrassement?

I think we have to distinguish the cases in which students are abused
from the cases in which teachers speak intelligently in front of
witnesses, and then touch their students as part of the lesson.

I took it that the discussion was about whether we could *ever* touch
our students. Ed Lacey said:

> You can explain all you want to, but you may still find yourself
> explaining to a judge and jury. You can't ask for permission to break
> a law, and agreement from a student for whatever contact you may want
> to make with them doesn't prevent them from deciding later that they
> found it embarrassing or offensive. Any teacher today who would touch
> any student's abdomen has to have rocks in the head.

I doubted that, as above. But of course, I don't doubt that students
are sometimes abused.

[snip of interesting reference]

Of course, this could very well be a case of abuse. That it's difficult
to prove that it was abuse doesn't alter that it might well have been
abuse.

I mostly teach in classes, as I describe above, so the issue doesn't
arise -- unless Ed Lacey is right.

Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
tel/fax 01865 553339

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