Klarinet Archive - Posting 001191.txt from 1999/07

From: Felix1297@-----.com
Subj: [kl] Re: klarinet Digest 29 Jul 1999 08:15:00 -0000 Issue 1606
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 09:19:22 -0400

In a message dated 29/07/99 03:13:33 Central Daylight Time,
klarinet-digest-help@-----.org writes:

<<
I used the "uncouth American" (your term) example because it was
convenient in illustrating a point, and you have in fact elaborated on that
point (though perhaps not intentionally).
Etiquette is not just "good manners;" it involves a level of sensitivity
beyond knowing the protocols in your peer/national group. The story I like
is of the man who, when he saw his dining partner's crude eating habits,
put aside his own "good manners" and ate more like his partner, thus
keeping his friend from feeling awkward.
What it boils down to, is, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." For your
sake *and* theirs.
Now, for the record, I have to defend my example from another angle. To
the French, politeness is far more of a cultural standard than it is in the
states. To expand on the reference I already made to dining, take the
standard American restaurant dining practice of sitting back in their
chairs and speaking loudly enough to be easily heard across the table
(several tables, I might add). Transplanted to France, this is seen as
rude (and quite frankly, I would agree; when I go out to dinner, I want to
engage in conversation with those I am with, without having to fight over
the guy at the table next to me). Clearly it isn't rude to the Americans
who have unknowingly crossed the line into gaucheness, but, really, isn't
it rude to assume that you can go anywhere and behave as if you were at home?
Getting back to the issue of using punctuation, correct spelling and *more
or less* standard English in posts to the list (that is, I believe, where
this thread started), it is not far-fetched to assume that not everyone who
participates on the list has equal facility with the English language;
simple politeness (or sensitivity, or whatever you want to call it)
dictates that we should be clear in our communication, if we want to get
our message across.

Bruce

P.S. In further defense of my American vs. French example, I refer anyone
interested in the subject cultural contrasts to the "Culture Shock" series
of travel books (and others of the same ilk), and another book entitled
"Understanding Europeans;" They shed considerable light on cultural
differences (and are often just plain fascinating), and the issue of
politeness (and the perceived IMpoliteness of Americans) is addressed.

>>
Bonjour everybody,

I read Bruce's post with attention and cannot do anything else but agreed
with what he said. I think I am a good example of a "Non correcly English
Language user" part of it is because I never tought I would have to use
another language in my life because I was working on making instrument at the
factory since I was 15 and tought I would do like everybody else at the
factory stay there for the rest of my life.
It turned out differently and honesly I am the happiest person in the world
now. English gave me the opportunity to fell in love with my teacher and
married her ( the only problem is I had to find another teacher to save my
marriage,I am not the best student on heart) I then had the offer of my job
here in the States and when I had my interview I couldn't speak one word of
English and was sure they would turn me down.I was wrong we talked and we
decided to try,I took English lessons 3 hours per day everyday for a year
before I came here in 97. My point is that since I am here I had support from
everyone around me collegues (who have to work everyday with me and just this
should bring them an award) The musician I worked with and the people you see
everyday at the grosserystore and so forth. I didn't have one problem and was
amazed by the kindness of everyone.Like every European i had the little
things against American without knowing anything about them (Stupide
No?).Part of it was the way the Countries are defending their way Business,
etc and make other look like they take away business from their people. It
has been the Leitmotiv of a lot of Presidents all around the world are using
do defend their Ideas.
I have been on situation where I was not proud to be French because of the
way certain of French people were behaving. i never said a word and always
waited for them to leave the place and then I apologized for them and try to
show the people all the French are not like that. To finifsh this long post
and sorry about that. When I came here I decided to leave like the American
was leaving.Drive like they do(wich was difficult coming from Paris where I
leaved 15 years) and understand the life style in America when I speak to
European or go back on business trip the call me the American now because I
always explain and defend the way the American are thinking and leave. I love
America and would like to be a citizen myself one day if I can. I feel like
home here now we had two kids here they are American a boy and a girl and I
have no intention to go back in Europe in the near future.the bottom line is
you have people that try to understand other and people that just want their
way and that's all. It is the way it is,was and always will be.

Musically Yours

Francois Kloc
Woodwind Product Specialist
boosey & Hawkes Musical Instruments Inc.

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