Klarinet Archive - Posting 000930.txt from 1999/07

From: Bill Hausmann <bhausman@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] school music programs(kinda defending corps too)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:11:11 -0400

At 01:24 AM 7/25/1999 -0500, Roger Garrett wrote:
>
>> If you had quoted the whole passage, you would have seen the pressures I
>> referred to. The whole paragraph went as follows:
>>
>> >And just how else would you do it, when you are the sole band director
in a
>> small school in charge of both high school and junior high bands, and the
>> administration, school board, athletic department, etc., insist that you
>> have a marching band?
>
>I still don't see it Bill. I did that as have many of the friends I have
>nationwide. I never competed, and never did some of the others. I am
>still waiting to see what pressures you mean regarding a tenured faculty
>member who is effective, persuasive, and good at what they do.
>
Now I see where you misunderstand me. I was referring to having a marching
band at all, not marching for competition.

>> In the school
>> district I cited, the administration wholeheartedly supports the
>> non-competition policy. I believe they DICTATE it. They obviously realize
>> that the number of band trophies is not necessarily proportional to the
>> quality of education.
>
>That's one - list ten more. For every ten you list, I'll list another ten
>that are not that way. Betcha can't!
>
And your point would be...? I was merely citing an example of a situation
that works in support of the concept that competition is NOT necessary to a
marching band program. This, I thought, was in accord your own ideas.
That such programs are not universal is unfortunate. With any luck, maybe
they can spread the word.

>> As for your question about educating administators vs. educating kids,
>> don't be silly. It's not an either/or situation.
>
>Sure it is. Are you a poker player Bill? Maybe you should become one.
>Administrators are political creatures. They can be educated, convinced,
>swayed, etc......but not by someone who dictates to them. They require
>finesse.
>
Of course. But you gave the choice of educating administrators IN LIEU OF
teaching discipline to children. It is ludicrous to assume that one must
make such a choice!

>> No, my use of the word is not directed specifically
>> toward you, but several posts by you and others have made it very clear
>> that marching band is considered to be, at best, a waste of time and at
>> worst, an embouchure destroyer and practice time eliminator. For
>> convenience, I reduced that to the word "evil."
>
>I also saw many posts that favored it in a controlled way, and many who
>favored it in a non-controlled way. Only a few people were negative about
>marching band as a whole. I hardly think that "evil" represents the norm
>here.
>
"Moderation in all things." Of course marching band can be overdone, just
like anything else. But one cannot assume that it will be and therefore
conclude that it is always bad. I am simply denying that it is "evil" in
and of itself, with out regard to the manner in which it is done. You
yourself claim to have had positive experiences in marching band, and
managed to achieve a high level of proficiency on the clarinet in spite of
it, so I guess I don't understand what the argument is about.

>> But
>> out of your typical high school band of, keeping things in round numbers,
>> 100 members, how many professional symphony players do you expect to
>> produce? Two?
>
>Who said anything about producing symphony members other than you? I
>still hear from my high school students who are playing their instruments,
>enjoying musical recordings, going to hear concerts. These are musically
>literate people - not symphony players. That's our job as music
>educators....to create musically literate people. That's all. I never
>set out to create symphony, jazz, professional, etc. players.....where did
>that come from? I wonder if it is a prejudice you hold against all
>university teachers?
>
I don't see how marching band in any way interferes with the creation of
musically literate people, and in fact I believe it helps, if only in a
limited way. But there seems to be such great concern that it damages
embouchures and reduces "serious" practice time that it seems that the fear
is stunting the development of future Stolzmans, Morales', etc. As for
"prejudice I hold against all university teachers," where did THAT come
from? Especially since my hypothetical situation clearly said "typical
HIGH SCHOOL band?"

>> Even that strikes me as extremely optimistic. And will
>> that number significantly change if your school suddenly drops marching
>> band and has concert band all year instead? I submit that the benefits of
>> marching band that can be obtained by the other 98 exceed anything which
>> might theoretically be lost by the two. (This assumes, of course, that the
>> program is not being run by a jackass, as some surely are, which ruins it
>> for all 100.)
>
>Based upon?
>
Personal experience and discussions with numerous other marching band
players and band directors. Not to mention postings on this list.

>> What does geography have to do with it?
>
>Well, you may not have heard, but it goes to 20 degrees out in early
>October in the Northern states, and marching is limited. I guess those
>programs will have to go on without great music programs??? Bozeman, MT
>had 160 in the band in a 3 year program when I taught there - two
>marching shows and we were done. The football team kept playing though.
>
OK. Sounds like a perfect solution to the situation. You then proceeded
with concert music, I would assume. You thus wound up with the best of
both worlds. You had marching band, but it did not drag out forever. I
did my marching in northern Indiana, where it got cold enough late in the
season!

>> There have been posts of positive
>> experiences from all around. Negatives also come from multiple areas. I
>> stand by my statement: The OVERALL value of marching band to students'
>> personal (and even musical) development is FREQUENTLY (not always, not
>> never) great.
>
>Based on what information? Please cite the examples that you use to
>support your belief.
>
I cite the same people I cited above. If you have evidence to DISPROVE my
statement, that is, to prove that marching band is either ALWAYS or NEVER
valuable, please post that.

>> If you lead a horse to water... Yes, they SHOULD hear other things first.
>
>Thank you - I appreciate your recognition of this.
>
>> But they DON'T!
>
>Sure they do - with a positive, helpful, thoughtful teacher.
>
The "THEY" I referred to was the spectators in the stands at the football
game, not the band members who, of course, you CAN teach in better ways.

Bill Hausmann bhausman@-----.com
451 Old Orchard Drive http://www.concentric.net/~bhausman
Essexville, MI 48732 http://members.wbs.net/homepages/z/o/o/zoot14.html
ICQ UIN 4862265

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is too loud.

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