Klarinet Archive - Posting 000924.txt from 1999/07

From: Roger Garrett <rgarrett@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [kl] school music programs(kinda defending corps too)
Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 02:24:08 -0400

On Sun, 25 Jul 1999, Bill Hausmann wrote:
> Excuse me, but I do not recall stating any time limits.

Of course you didn't. The person you supported did - he said the entire
fall semester - which lasts through Christmas in public school. If you
didn't mean to support that position, than you need to retract - or,
better, I think you should read more carefully the posts by others before
taking a stance against those who are stating an opinion to the contrary.

> If you had quoted the whole passage, you would have seen the pressures I
> referred to. The whole paragraph went as follows:
>
> >And just how else would you do it, when you are the sole band director in a
> small school in charge of both high school and junior high bands, and the
> administration, school board, athletic department, etc., insist that you
> have a marching band?

I still don't see it Bill. I did that as have many of the friends I have
nationwide. I never competed, and never did some of the others. I am
still waiting to see what pressures you mean regarding a tenured faculty
member who is effective, persuasive, and good at what they do.

I stand by what I said - the weak educator gets by with being cowed by the
administration and athletic department.

> Was I not clear? I said I personally do not favor the concept of band
> competition. What does that have to do with tenure?

Well, it has plenty. Until one receives tenure, one may not change those
things they feel will lose their position. However, many schools have a 2
to 4 year tenure setup - and that is plenty of time to educate and
gradually change opinion to the contrary of competitions.

> In the school
> district I cited, the administration wholeheartedly supports the
> non-competition policy. I believe they DICTATE it. They obviously realize
> that the number of band trophies is not necessarily proportional to the
> quality of education.

That's one - list ten more. For every ten you list, I'll list another ten
that are not that way. Betcha can't!

> As for your question about educating administators vs. educating kids,
> don't be silly. It's not an either/or situation.

Sure it is. Are you a poker player Bill? Maybe you should become one.
Administrators are political creatures. They can be educated, convinced,
swayed, etc......but not by someone who dictates to them. They require
finesse.

> Twice? Whatever.

Seriously - you used it twice. Were you not aware of that?

> No, my use of the word is not directed specifically
> toward you, but several posts by you and others have made it very clear
> that marching band is considered to be, at best, a waste of time and at
> worst, an embouchure destroyer and practice time eliminator. For
> convenience, I reduced that to the word "evil."

I also saw many posts that favored it in a controlled way, and many who
favored it in a non-controlled way. Only a few people were negative about
marching band as a whole. I hardly think that "evil" represents the norm
here.

> OK. Marching band is probably not be the best way to develop a first-rate
> symphony clarinetist (I believe we are in agreement on this point).

Or trumpeter, or trombonist, or tuba player, or percussionist, or flutist,
certainly not oboe or bassoon!!! etc.

> But
> out of your typical high school band of, keeping things in round numbers,
> 100 members, how many professional symphony players do you expect to
> produce? Two?

Who said anything about producing symphony members other than you? I
still hear from my high school students who are playing their instruments,
enjoying musical recordings, going to hear concerts. These are musically
literate people - not symphony players. That's our job as music
educators....to create musically literate people. That's all. I never
set out to create symphony, jazz, professional, etc. players.....where did
that come from? I wonder if it is a prejudice you hold against all
university teachers?

> Even that strikes me as extremely optimistic. And will
> that number significantly change if your school suddenly drops marching
> band and has concert band all year instead? I submit that the benefits of
> marching band that can be obtained by the other 98 exceed anything which
> might theoretically be lost by the two. (This assumes, of course, that the
> program is not being run by a jackass, as some surely are, which ruins it
> for all 100.)

Based upon?

> What does geography have to do with it?

Well, you may not have heard, but it goes to 20 degrees out in early
October in the Northern states, and marching is limited. I guess those
programs will have to go on without great music programs??? Bozeman, MT
had 160 in the band in a 3 year program when I taught there - two
marching shows and we were done. The football team kept playing though.

> There have been posts of positive
> experiences from all around. Negatives also come from multiple areas. I
> stand by my statement: The OVERALL value of marching band to students'
> personal (and even musical) development is FREQUENTLY (not always, not
> never) great.

Based on what information? Please cite the examples that you use to
support your belief.

> If you lead a horse to water... Yes, they SHOULD hear other things first.

Thank you - I appreciate your recognition of this.

> But they DON'T!

Sure they do - with a positive, helpful, thoughtful teacher.

> You did, I did, many people we hang around with did, but
> many do not.

Naw, I didn't - not until I got to college.

> Maybe the marching band's performance will inspire them to go
> and seek out the real thing.

Probably not. At least, the students I see still wonder why there is a
chorus in the Carmina - they only know the band version!

I appreciate your passion, but I feel it does not represent the norm -
rather, it represents an isolated person's opinion - and one who has never
even taught a band. Sorry - that's kind of an important consideration.
Roger Garrett
Professor of Clarinet
Director - Concert Band, Symphonic Winds & Titan Band
Advisor - Recording Studio
Illinois Wesleyan University

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