Klarinet Archive - Posting 000751.txt from 1999/05

From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
Subj: RE: [kl] re: blow out
Date: Sun, 16 May 1999 18:07:57 -0400

> From: MX%"klarinet@-----.12
> Subj: RE: [kl] re: blow out

> Dan,
> In fact, MANY obooists I have played with have mentioned the
> phenomenon of blowout. It is a function of how much playing time an
> instrument gets. E. Horns, Piccs, etc. don't get blown out because they
> aren't played enough. Players justdon't play them for 3-6 hours per day
> week in and week out. Don't forget, not all clarinets seem to get it
> either. I suspect it is rather individual to the particular horn.
> As for Bassoons, they are made of maple wood, not the harder
> blackwoods. They don't seem to have this problem and a Bassoon repairman
> (Holden McAleer) who rebuilds bassoons and works on nothing but bassoons,
> has told me that he thinks it is a characteristic of the clarinet wood.
> I'd be interested if Rossi has any problem with his Rosewood instruments
> versus his Grenadilla ones.

And many oboists I have played with have said nothing about blowout and
how it affects their instruments. So what have we learned here?

Anecdotal information is not evidence!

And I know piccolo players who play their instruments all the time,
day in and day out for 30 years and nothing happens to them. So
what?

Anecdotal information is not evidence!

This happens every time we discuss these (and other problems). Someone
says, "But my uncle Max had this condition so it must be true."

Anecdotal information is not evidence!

Even personal experience is not evidence.

Everything that happens to us personally is biased in a thousand
ways and cannot be accepted in supporting or denying a particular
hypothesis.

Where is the unbiased scientific evidence in support of or in
rejection of this very questionable theory?

>
>
> Fred Jacobowitz
> Clarinet/Sax Instructor, Peabody Preparatory
>
> On Fri, 14 May 1999, Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu wrote:
>
> > > From: MX%"klarinet@-----.45
> > > Subj: RE: [kl] re: blow out
> >
> > > On Fri, 14 May 1999, Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have an opinion too. Blow out is a phenomenon suggested to exist by
> > > > musical instrument manufacturers for the purpose of selling
> > > > instruments; i.e., it is a sales tool which has come to be accepted by
> > > > the clarinet-playing community as a whole.
> > >
> > > My goodness, Dan! You certainly are have your cynic's hat on today! ;-)
> > >
> > > Well, I have an opinion, too. It is that blowout does exist. However, I
> > > have never been told this by an instrument manufacturer or salesman. I
> > > have two sources of information on which I base that opinion. The first
> > > is my own observation, based on playing some grenadilla instruments, very
> > > old, but in very good mechanical condition, and then comparing them with
> > > some newer ones, also in good condition. The second is from technically-
> > > oriented people in the field of materials science, who know about and have
> > > described the phenomenon known as "depolymerization," and who have
> > > observed its effects under the microscope.
> >
> > And I am delighted to hear and learn from that opinion. But it is, in the
> > final analysis, only that. It has no weight of evidence. There is nothing
> > scientific or reproducible from you or I stating an opinion. And if there
> > are technically oriented people in the field of materials science who
> > know about this phenoment and can observe its effects under a microscope,
> > then why have those who claim to have a blown out instrument simply take
> > their clarinet into such a depolymerization specialist who will advise them
> > to spend or not spend $3000 to replace it. All those who claim to have
> > a blown out instrument do so on the basis of how it feels to them. Maybe
> > a collection of testing sites (like car lubrication stores) can establish
> > exactly how much blowoutedness exists on any horn.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > The evidence for the non-existence of this problem is copious.
> > >
> > Ever hear of a bass clarinet getting blown out? How about a wooden
> > flute or a wooden piccolo? English horns? I heard that there was
> > an oboist who claimed that his horn blew out in about 12-24 months
> > but except for this suggestion, you don't hear about blow out from
> > many instrumentalists other than clarinetists. You are a bassoonist
> > Ed. What about contrabassoons. Is it that the most expensive
> > instruments don't blow out?
> >
> >
> >
> > > What is that evidence?
> > >
> > > > The evidence for its existence falls in the realm of urban legends.
> > >
> > Where is the scientific description of this phenomenon? What
> > causes it. There are at least 6 different theories including vibration,
> > modification of bore dimensions, swabbing, moisture saturation of the
> > wood, and plantary motion around the sun.
> >
> >
> >
> > > I have a hard time regarding the knowledge and experience of the entire
> > > field of materials science as "urban legend."
> > >
> > There is not any broad body of knowledge in this area. It is all
> > word of mouth advertising. Please point me to the scientific and
> > technical papers that describe, measure, explain, discuss, and
> > understand it. I'll read them all.
> >
> >
> >
> > > > And the last way to win a technical argument is to suggest that "xxx
> > > > says so!"
> > >
> > > Then, you will be pleased to learn that, while I remain willing to be
> > > convinced that blow-out is only an urban legend, I won't make that
> > > intellectual and philosophical jump based on the fact that you say it
> > > doesn't exist.
> >
> > I don't suggest that you do. I'm simply stating another opinion, which
> > in this arena is all that is given to state the contrary.
> >
> > And while we are on opinions, let me add that one respected (but somewhat
> > crazy) repairman in NY, Harold Bennet, whose reputation was as big
> > as Fobes', Hite's, etc. said that he could cure any instrument that
> > supposedly suffered this disablement by a process known as
> > "homogonizing." Lot's of people thought he was a nut case, but a
> > lot swore by him.
> >
> > I'm not suggesting that he was right or wrong. Rather that this entire
> > phenomenon is discussed as if its existence was a proven and unarguable
> > fact. Show me the data that support that assertion, please. To me
> > it is about at the level of scientific accuracy as the view that
> > witches did not float in water. Everybody knew that to be true, of course.
> >
> > >
> > > Ed Lacy
> > > el2@-----.edu
> > >
> > >
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> > =======================================
> > Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
> > leeson@-----.edu
> > =======================================
> >
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> >
>
>
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=======================================
Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
leeson@-----.edu
=======================================

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