Klarinet Archive - Posting 000960.txt from 1999/03

From: Dave Sandusky <daves@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Copyright (was [kl] Gilbert and Sullivan parody)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:18:57 -0500

You go boy!

James P Reed wrote:

> In response to Lelia's latest postings, Steve Goldman stated:
>
> > Implying that Cindy was a plagiarist and questioning her morals
> > tells me much more about your personality then hers.
>
> Not only would I like to echo this but I would also like to report that
> Lelia has read the same parody posting by myself and others on a variety
> of newsgroups and has chosen this list to make her stand.
>
> Lelia, why go after clarinetists when you could be going after
> saxophonists and others?
>
> Certainly, this is an issue of such paramount legal importance to Lelia
> that I would think she should also post to every other newsgroup she's
> on where she has read this parady so that she can quite legalisticly
> stifle and police the social intercourse that goes on there as well. Oh
> yes, I and anyone else who can put this in more human terms can probably
> describe the need for such self-righteous policing of the Internet but
> I'm not economically willing to push this far enough to face Lelia in
> court, with expert witnesses, not all testifying about copyright laws,
> even though Lelia has made it clear she's spoiling for legal actions.
>
> Granted, Mark and the rest of us (hopefully) don't want copyright issues
> and litigation converging on the list as a result of the postings here.
> However, there are numerous other people who post to this list without
> legitimate or complete references, an issue I raised with Lelia and
> didn't - unfortunately at that time - see the need to cover my butt by
> keeping a copy of my email to her.
>
> Nonetheless, now that the issue is raised, Mark's anarchy has to come
> crashing down and WE MUST, for the legal purposes Lelia has raised,
> cover out collective butts by not allowing any postings of speculation,
> heresay, or conjecture, especially ones that quote second-hand sources,
> other people, or other sources of intellectual property. At the very
> least, this will require a group of people who review messages and
> netiquite rules such as are used on the flute list. And, the rules will
> need to state, very clearly, that anybody who makes a copyright
> violation will be notified the first time, warned the second time and
> removed from the list the third time or something of that nature.
>
> Are we ready and willing to do this or is maintaining an anarchy worth
> the risks of not having rules addressing such serious and profound legal
> violations that are made, almost daily, on this list? If you doubt me,
> get a clear legal reading on this - I'll bet the possibilities for
> litigation are numerous enough to shut the list down, regardless of
> denial and opinions to the contrary. I'll be damned if I know for sure
> but I do understand the terrorism of threats of legal action and I have
> no legal and binding evidence from Lelia that what she has raised will
> not drag me or anyone else her into court, if it benefits a legal action
> she is pursuing. You see, she can use this list as an example of how
> widespead and commonplace plagariasm on the Internet is along with how
> people flagrantly violate copyright laws, even after having been duly
> warned. After all, Lelia has duly warned us and we damn sure better pay
> attention and respond to her every wish and command.
>
> I only have Lelia's word that she is not currently pursuing legal
> actions, at the moment, and an impression that she is a very
> self-righteous and potentially vengeful individual, searching for people
> to litigate herself. She's openly stated her activities along this
> line, in her searches for plagiarism on the Net, yet continues to bait
> people who don't know better with some of her witty postings here that
> damn good and well had better not appear elsewhere, especially in a
> modified form - caveat emptor turned into let the reader beware.
>
> I'm serious about this issue raising the question of needing stringent
> and enforceable rules on this list, explicitly covering any comments
> made about what other people have said or anything that even remotely
> implies a potential copyright violation. People can be liable for such
> comments as "my teacher or band director said ...", etc. and even school
> children should know about their potential liabilities for the remarks
> they make. Otherwise, they probably won't grow up to be legally
> responsbile adults.
>
> Clearly, by her absence of posting these remarks to some of the other
> lists/newsgroups Lelia belongs to indicates she has chosen her battle
> ground and it is this list.
>
> Will something be done to clean up and police this list or will the
> silent majority prevail? And, if we ignore this issue, are we risking
> being involved in some future litigation of Lelia's? Can we trust her
> not to involve us as supporting evidence in one of her proposed legal
> actions? After all, she has clearly stated she is searching for
> possible instances of her work (email, included, I assume) with the
> intent of litigating. And, after this recent warning to us about such
> behavior, we - meaning the list and its members - are a prime example
> which could be used in numerous different ways to substantiate whatever
> points might be deemed necessary or useful by her attorney.
>
> FWIW, some of this is parady and some of it is serious. Trouble is, I
> don't necessarily know which. I just feel, IMHO, it's a kiss of death
> type issue for the list that probably must be confronted and not
> ignored.
>
> I'm sure to be flamed over this! At the very least, this issue is
> serious enough for me to consider sticking my head back in the ground
> and bailing from every list on the Net, knowing Lelia is out there.
>
> Jim
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
> Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
> Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
> Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org