Klarinet Archive - Posting 000951.txt from 1999/03
From: Larry Paikin <larrypaikin@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 23:59:39 -0500
Bert,
Your history of Finland, as told from a soldier-carinetist's perspective was
one of the most interesting postings I've read in klarinet. Thank you for
it. And please keep us posted on your re-entry into the wide-wide world of
music
Larry
Peter Randell wrote:
> Hello People:-
>
> So if the following is not clarinet related, why is it addressed
> to the list??????
>
> This is the point I was making in my posting of March 10 1999
> "Studio Teaching Horror's"
>
> It is also the point that Clark Fobes was making in his posting
> on March 5 1998 [ Yes_1998_] under the heading "Request",
> and since the posting is Clarinet Related, I am taking the liberty
> of quoting his comment's:-
>
> <" I have no problem with people who want to play in marching
> bands, but this is not the venue for this discussion.
>
> One of the many reasons I so rarely participate in this forum
> is that it has really changed from the original intent.
>
> Lets all stick to the subject of CLARINET, please.
>
> Perhaps more of the professionals and instructors will be
> more willing to participate if this list can get back on track.">
>
> Could we now get back to "Clarinet 101 ?
>
> Have a nice day,
>
> Peter Randell. Toronto
>
> ----------
> From: Bert Amten <major.bam@-----.se>
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: SV: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)
> Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:13 AM
>
> Although history does not belong to the clarinet list at all, the statement
> from David Blumberg could not go unchallenged.
>
> Finland did belong to Sweden until 1809. There were MANY wars between
> Sweden and Russia over the centuries, but this war Sweden lost and so also
> lost Finland to Russia. During the revolution of Russia there was in short
> a lot of fighting in Finland as well. Dec 12th 1917 Finland declared itself
> independent and that is the birth of the Finnish state. In fact there was a
> state of war on between Finland and the Sovietunion from 1918! 1932 there
> finally was a non-aggression pact signed between the Sovietunion and
> Finland. However the Soviets demanded even more of Finnish territory and
> nov 30th 1939 Soviet troops ATTACKED over the Finnish boarder, a war that
> became known as the winterwar was on. Even if Finland did not become
> occupied they lost more than 10% of their territory in the peace treaty
> which was signed in Moscow March 12th 1940. Luckily enough the population
> of these areas succeeded in escaping to the parts of Finland that were not
> taken by the Soviets. In the June1941 when nazi-Germany attacked the
> Sovietunion, Finland decided to join because they wanted their territory
> back. In both these wars the Finnish soldiers came from both the white and
> the red side during the civil wars of the Revolution and as far as I know
> few of them hesitated about what to do. Mind you that the leading political
> force during the so called continuation war was the socialdemocratic party,
> even if the Finnish government was put together from different parties.
>
> The US broke off its diplomatic relations with Finland as late as June 30th
> 1944. Again Finland lost territory and the peninsula Porkala was "rented"
> by the Soviets in the final peace agreement of WW2, and the Sovietunion
> forced them into a military pact, where in the event of a war or even a
> threat of war Finland had to help the Sovietunion with armed forces.
>
> Even Swedes of very different political opinion were in Finland fighting
> during this time of which I happen to know a few. I do not believe that
> there were more nazis in Finland (of Finnish origin, the Germans had troops
> there) than in the most other European countries of the time. In fact when
> the agreement of truce was written between Finland and the Sovietunion the
> Finnish had to start cleaning up from German forces and that did not happen
> voluntarily from the German side. In reality this was another war which
> could be viewed over the Swedish-Finnish boarder in the very north. My
> father was one of the Swedish soldiers (conscript at the time keeping guard
> at the Finnish-Swedish boarder) that witnessed when Finnish villages and
> cities were on fire. In fact the Sovietunion never succeeded to achieve
> their goals which was to get all of Finland as they succeeded with the
> Baltic states. The Fins had watched the split of the Baltic states between
> Hitler and Stalin very carefully. The Finnish people fought to strong for
> their own country.
>
> If you look at the postwar period up to now these events have put a strong
> mark on the political scene of the northern Europe until the disintegration
> of the Sovietunion. I can tell you that it is not easy to live that close
> to the "bear" (the Sovietunion), neither for the Fins nor for the Swedes.
> Flight time for the Soviet air force to the Swedish coast at the Baltic
> beeing less than 30 minutes, ships could transfer troops over the Baltic in
> a few hours. In the Finnish case we were talking about minutes to attack.
> All decisions on foreign policy had to be made with this background in mind
> and with a constant threat of attack, at many occasions a very official and
> public threat from the Sovietunion. Still after many hundred years of
> fighting in the area, where these two countries have been at war with
> Russia, I feel that among the general Finnish and Swedish population there
> is a big mistrust against Russia. I also believe that if the Fins had not
> been fighting as they did neither Sweden nor Norway would have been free
> countries during the cold war. The US had been at a vastly more difficult
> position if the Sovietunion had had access to the Norwegian Atlantic coast
> (as Hitler had and successfully used), and the Baltic sea had literally
> been a Soviet lake.
>
> What you are talking about is a small people's heroic fight for their own
> existence and liberty and not very much of fighting for the nazis. Thus
> jews were among the Finnish soldiers as were the rest of the population
> nothing strange about that at all.
>
> On the personal side, in fact this history acted so strong on me so that I
> became a military officer instead of a musician (the latter being my
> preferred choice). I am now on the virge of being retired at the age of 58
> (two more weeks to go) so I will have time to engage seriously in music
> again.
>
> Please remember that this is the very, very SHORT version of the history!
> Much could indeed be added. Terribly thick books have been written on this
> subject. I do not in any way claim that my descriotion is more than
> superfluous.
>
> Bert Amten
> Major
> Royal Swedish Marines
>
> -----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
> Från: David Blumberg <reedman@-----.com>
> Till: klarinet@-----.org>
> Datum: den 15 mars 1999 23:23
> Ämne: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)
>
> >To: klarinet@-----.org
> >From: Roger Shilcock
> <roger.shilcock@-----.uk>
> >Subject: Re: [kl] Kohlert Clarinet
> >Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990315090919.7322B-100000@-----.uk>
> >The first country Germany invaded was *Austria*>
> >rjs
> >On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Neil Leupold wrote:
> >> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:23:38 -0600 (CST)
> >> From: Neil Leupold <nleupold@-----.edu>
> >> Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> >> To: klarinet@-----.org
> >> Subject: Re: [kl] Kohlert Clarinet
> >>
> >> On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Dee D. Hays wrote:
> >>
> >> > Czechoslovakia was formed in 1919 and was dissolved by Germany in 1938
> >when
> >> > it was taken over in World War II.
> >>
> >> 1938? Odd, I thought the war began in 1939, and that the
> >> first country that Germany invaded was Poland. Then again,
> >> history and geography always were my worst subjects in school!
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >--------------------------------
> >
> >But did you know that there was a country that the Jews and Nazis were
> >fighting next to each other? Yup, it was Finland - fighting Russia. The
> >Nazis, and the Jews fought alongside each other.
> >Is that too strange or what?
> >
> >
> >David Blumberg - MTA for Woodwind Players (200+ pieces, Playable Demos -
> >G2, MP3's)
> >reedman@-----.com
> >http://www.mytempo.com
> >---------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
> >Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
> >Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
> >Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org
> >
> >
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
> Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
> Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
> Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org
> ----------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
> Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
> Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
> Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org
