Klarinet Archive - Posting 000905.txt from 1999/03

From: "Peter Randell" <bardell@-----.ca>
Subj: Re: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 10:51:58 -0500

Hello People:-

So if the following is not clarinet related, why is it addressed
to the list??????

This is the point I was making in my posting of March 10 1999
"Studio Teaching Horror's"

It is also the point that Clark Fobes was making in his posting
on March 5 1998 [ Yes_1998_] under the heading "Request",
and since the posting is Clarinet Related, I am taking the liberty
of quoting his comment's:-

<" I have no problem with people who want to play in marching
bands, but this is not the venue for this discussion.

One of the many reasons I so rarely participate in this forum
is that it has really changed from the original intent.

Lets all stick to the subject of CLARINET, please.

Perhaps more of the professionals and instructors will be
more willing to participate if this list can get back on track.">

Could we now get back to "Clarinet 101 ?

Have a nice day,

Peter Randell. Toronto

----------
From: Bert Amten <major.bam@-----.se>
Subject: SV: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)
Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 7:13 AM

Although history does not belong to the clarinet list at all, the statement
from David Blumberg could not go unchallenged.

Finland did belong to Sweden until 1809. There were MANY wars between
Sweden and Russia over the centuries, but this war Sweden lost and so also
lost Finland to Russia. During the revolution of Russia there was in short
a lot of fighting in Finland as well. Dec 12th 1917 Finland declared itself
independent and that is the birth of the Finnish state. In fact there was a
state of war on between Finland and the Sovietunion from 1918! 1932 there
finally was a non-aggression pact signed between the Sovietunion and
Finland. However the Soviets demanded even more of Finnish territory and
nov 30th 1939 Soviet troops ATTACKED over the Finnish boarder, a war that
became known as the winterwar was on. Even if Finland did not become
occupied they lost more than 10% of their territory in the peace treaty
which was signed in Moscow March 12th 1940. Luckily enough the population
of these areas succeeded in escaping to the parts of Finland that were not
taken by the Soviets. In the June1941 when nazi-Germany attacked the
Sovietunion, Finland decided to join because they wanted their territory
back. In both these wars the Finnish soldiers came from both the white and
the red side during the civil wars of the Revolution and as far as I know
few of them hesitated about what to do. Mind you that the leading political
force during the so called continuation war was the socialdemocratic party,
even if the Finnish government was put together from different parties.

The US broke off its diplomatic relations with Finland as late as June 30th
1944. Again Finland lost territory and the peninsula Porkala was "rented"
by the Soviets in the final peace agreement of WW2, and the Sovietunion
forced them into a military pact, where in the event of a war or even a
threat of war Finland had to help the Sovietunion with armed forces.

Even Swedes of very different political opinion were in Finland fighting
during this time of which I happen to know a few. I do not believe that
there were more nazis in Finland (of Finnish origin, the Germans had troops
there) than in the most other European countries of the time. In fact when
the agreement of truce was written between Finland and the Sovietunion the
Finnish had to start cleaning up from German forces and that did not happen
voluntarily from the German side. In reality this was another war which
could be viewed over the Swedish-Finnish boarder in the very north. My
father was one of the Swedish soldiers (conscript at the time keeping guard
at the Finnish-Swedish boarder) that witnessed when Finnish villages and
cities were on fire. In fact the Sovietunion never succeeded to achieve
their goals which was to get all of Finland as they succeeded with the
Baltic states. The Fins had watched the split of the Baltic states between
Hitler and Stalin very carefully. The Finnish people fought to strong for
their own country.

If you look at the postwar period up to now these events have put a strong
mark on the political scene of the northern Europe until the disintegration
of the Sovietunion. I can tell you that it is not easy to live that close
to the "bear" (the Sovietunion), neither for the Fins nor for the Swedes.
Flight time for the Soviet air force to the Swedish coast at the Baltic
beeing less than 30 minutes, ships could transfer troops over the Baltic in
a few hours. In the Finnish case we were talking about minutes to attack.
All decisions on foreign policy had to be made with this background in mind
and with a constant threat of attack, at many occasions a very official and
public threat from the Sovietunion. Still after many hundred years of
fighting in the area, where these two countries have been at war with
Russia, I feel that among the general Finnish and Swedish population there
is a big mistrust against Russia. I also believe that if the Fins had not
been fighting as they did neither Sweden nor Norway would have been free
countries during the cold war. The US had been at a vastly more difficult
position if the Sovietunion had had access to the Norwegian Atlantic coast
(as Hitler had and successfully used), and the Baltic sea had literally
been a Soviet lake.

What you are talking about is a small people's heroic fight for their own
existence and liberty and not very much of fighting for the nazis. Thus
jews were among the Finnish soldiers as were the rest of the population
nothing strange about that at all.

On the personal side, in fact this history acted so strong on me so that I
became a military officer instead of a musician (the latter being my
preferred choice). I am now on the virge of being retired at the age of 58
(two more weeks to go) so I will have time to engage seriously in music
again.

Please remember that this is the very, very SHORT version of the history!
Much could indeed be added. Terribly thick books have been written on this
subject. I do not in any way claim that my descriotion is more than
superfluous.

Bert Amten
Major
Royal Swedish Marines

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: David Blumberg <reedman@-----.com>
Till: klarinet@-----.org>
Datum: den 15 mars 1999 23:23
Ämne: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)

>To: klarinet@-----.org
>From: Roger Shilcock
<roger.shilcock@-----.uk>
>Subject: Re: [kl] Kohlert Clarinet
>Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990315090919.7322B-100000@-----.uk>
>The first country Germany invaded was *Austria*>
>rjs
>On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Neil Leupold wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:23:38 -0600 (CST)
>> From: Neil Leupold <nleupold@-----.edu>
>> Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
>> To: klarinet@-----.org
>> Subject: Re: [kl] Kohlert Clarinet
>>
>> On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Dee D. Hays wrote:
>>
>> > Czechoslovakia was formed in 1919 and was dissolved by Germany in 1938
>when
>> > it was taken over in World War II.
>>
>> 1938? Odd, I thought the war began in 1939, and that the
>> first country that Germany invaded was Poland. Then again,
>> history and geography always were my worst subjects in school!
>>
>> Neil
>>
>--------------------------------
>
>But did you know that there was a country that the Jews and Nazis were
>fighting next to each other? Yup, it was Finland - fighting Russia. The
>Nazis, and the Jews fought alongside each other.
>Is that too strange or what?
>
>
>David Blumberg - MTA for Woodwind Players (200+ pieces, Playable Demos -
>G2, MP3's)
>reedman@-----.com
>http://www.mytempo.com
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
>Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
>Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
>Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org
----------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe from Klarinet, e-mail: klarinet-unsubscribe@-----.org
Subscribe to the Digest: klarinet-digest-subscribe@-----.org
Additional commands: klarinet-help@-----.org
Other problems: klarinet-owner@-----.org

   
     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact charette@woodwind.org