Klarinet Archive - Posting 000901.txt from 1999/03

From: "Bert Amten" <major.bam@-----.se>
Subj: SV: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 07:13:34 -0500

Although history does not belong to the clarinet list at all, the =
statement from David Blumberg could not go unchallenged.

Finland did belong to Sweden until 1809. There were MANY wars between =
Sweden and Russia over the centuries, but this war Sweden lost and so =
also lost Finland to Russia. During the revolution of Russia there was =
in short a lot of fighting in Finland as well. Dec 12th 1917 Finland =
declared itself independent and that is the birth of the Finnish state. =
In fact there was a state of war on between Finland and the Sovietunion =
from 1918! 1932 there finally was a non-aggression pact signed between =
the Sovietunion and Finland. However the Soviets demanded even more of =
Finnish territory and nov 30th 1939 Soviet troops ATTACKED over the =
Finnish boarder, a war that became known as the winterwar was on. Even =
if Finland did not become occupied they lost more than 10% of their =
territory in the peace treaty which was signed in Moscow March 12th =
1940. Luckily enough the population of these areas succeeded in escaping =
to the parts of Finland that were not taken by the Soviets. In the =
June1941 when nazi-Germany attacked the Sovietunion, Finland decided to =
join because they wanted their territory back. In both these wars the =
Finnish soldiers came from both the white and the red side during the =
civil wars of the Revolution and as far as I know few of them hesitated =
about what to do. Mind you that the leading political force during the =
so called continuation war was the socialdemocratic party, even if the =
Finnish government was put together from different parties.=20

The US broke off its diplomatic relations with Finland as late as June =
30th 1944. Again Finland lost territory and the peninsula Porkala was =
"rented" by the Soviets in the final peace agreement of WW2, and the =
Sovietunion forced them into a military pact, where in the event of a =
war or even a threat of war Finland had to help the Sovietunion with =
armed forces.=20

Even Swedes of very different political opinion were in Finland fighting =
during this time of which I happen to know a few. I do not believe that =
there were more nazis in Finland (of Finnish origin, the Germans had =
troops there) than in the most other European countries of the time. In =
fact when the agreement of truce was written between Finland and the =
Sovietunion the Finnish had to start cleaning up from German forces and =
that did not happen voluntarily from the German side. In reality this =
was another war which could be viewed over the Swedish-Finnish boarder =
in the very north. My father was one of the Swedish soldiers (conscript =
at the time keeping guard at the Finnish-Swedish boarder) that witnessed =
when Finnish villages and cities were on fire. In fact the Sovietunion =
never succeeded to achieve their goals which was to get all of Finland =
as they succeeded with the Baltic states. The Fins had watched the split =
of the Baltic states between Hitler and Stalin very carefully. The =
Finnish people fought to strong for their own country.=20

If you look at the postwar period up to now these events have put a =
strong mark on the political scene of the northern Europe until the =
disintegration of the Sovietunion. I can tell you that it is not easy to =
live that close to the "bear" (the Sovietunion), neither for the Fins =
nor for the Swedes. Flight time for the Soviet air force to the Swedish =
coast at the Baltic beeing less than 30 minutes, ships could transfer =
troops over the Baltic in a few hours. In the Finnish case we were =
talking about minutes to attack. All decisions on foreign policy had to =
be made with this background in mind and with a constant threat of =
attack, at many occasions a very official and public threat from the =
Sovietunion. Still after many hundred years of fighting in the area, =
where these two countries have been at war with Russia, I feel that =
among the general Finnish and Swedish population there is a big mistrust =
against Russia. I also believe that if the Fins had not been fighting as =
they did neither Sweden nor Norway would have been free countries during =
the cold war. The US had been at a vastly more difficult position if the =
Sovietunion had had access to the Norwegian Atlantic coast (as Hitler =
had and successfully used), and the Baltic sea had literally been a =
Soviet lake.=20

What you are talking about is a small people's heroic fight for their =
own existence and liberty and not very much of fighting for the nazis. =
Thus jews were among the Finnish soldiers as were the rest of the =
population nothing strange about that at all.

On the personal side, in fact this history acted so strong on me so that =
I became a military officer instead of a musician (the latter being my =
preferred choice). I am now on the virge of being retired at the age of =
58 (two more weeks to go) so I will have time to engage seriously in =
music again.

Please remember that this is the very, very SHORT version of the =
history! Much could indeed be added. Terribly thick books have been =
written on this subject. I do not in any way claim that my descriotion =
is more than superfluous.

Bert Amten
Major=20
Royal Swedish Marines

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fr@-----.com>
Till: klarinet@-----.org>
Datum: den 15 mars 1999 23:23
=C4mne: [kl] re: WW II (not in the least Clarinet related)

>To: klarinet@-----.org=20
>From: Roger Shilcock =
<roger.shilcock@-----.uk>=20
>Subject: Re: [kl] Kohlert Clarinet=20
>Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.990315090919.7322B-100000@-----.uk>
>The first country Germany invaded was *Austria*>=20
>rjs
>On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Neil Leupold wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:23:38 -0600 (CST)=20
>> From: Neil Leupold <nleupold@-----.edu>=20
>> Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org=20
>> To: klarinet@-----.org=20
>> Subject: Re: [kl] Kohlert Clarinet=20
>>=20
>> On Sun, 14 Mar 1999, Dee D. Hays wrote:=20
>>=20
>> > Czechoslovakia was formed in 1919 and was dissolved by Germany in =
1938
>when=20
>> > it was taken over in World War II.=20
>>=20
>> 1938? Odd, I thought the war began in 1939, and that the=20
>> first country that Germany invaded was Poland. Then again,=20
>> history and geography always were my worst subjects in school!=20
>>=20
>> Neil=20
>>=20
>--------------------------------
>
>But did you know that there was a country that the Jews and Nazis were
>fighting next to each other? Yup, it was Finland - fighting Russia. The
>Nazis, and the Jews fought alongside each other.
>Is that too strange or what?
>
>
>David Blumberg - MTA for Woodwind Players (200+ pieces, Playable Demos =
-
>G2, MP3's)
>reedman@-----.com
>http://www.mytempo.com =20
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>
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