Klarinet Archive - Posting 000822.txt from 1999/02

From: Roger Garrett <rgarrett@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [kl] Mouthpiece prices, Roger Garrett
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:07:56 -0500

At 12:12 PM 2/20/99 -0600, you wrote:
> By stating that your mouthpiece is the same blank that Jim Pyme uses
>and that your mouthpiece is $35 and his is $170 you made an implicit
>comparison of your product to Jim's. Jim has clearly and politely pointed
>out that your comparison is really inaccurate.

Clark,

You are correct - but my second post is quite clear about clarifying what I
meant. I was simply providing the same information that I was provided.
That is, that I use a 183 blank - a finished blank - shortened by 1 mm that
is purchased from J.J. Babbitt Company. I actually use three different
blanks, and that is one of them. Mr. Pyne's post was helpful in describing
that he works on the blanks in ways that "refacers" do not. It is at that
point that the blanks are the same. However, I stand by what I said - the
blanks are identical when they leave J.J. Babbitt (according to Jim Green).

> I don't believe that you meant to say that your mouthpiece is of the
>same quality as a Pyne, did you? There are many factors in pricing
>mouthpieces that go beyond the mere time alloted to "facing". When you
>first approached me about tips for working on mouthpieces you assured me
>that you had no intent of becoming a mouthpiece maker. Perhaps in less than
>a year you feel that you have achieved enough experience to go into the
>mouthpiece refacing business. That's fine, but please don't try to define
>what Jim Pyne or anyone else should charge for mouthpieces based on your
>limited experience.

Not at all Clark - I don't believe mine are similar at all to Pyne's.
There are many factors, of which you are already aware, that differntiate
mouthpieces. At the point that Jim Pyne begins to work on the mouthpiece
is the point that our mouthpieces deviate. A year ago, I told both you and
Richard Hawkins I had no desire to go into mass production of mouthpieces
and market them. My only reason for making them now is that I was asked to
by several people. In fact, it was Richard Hawkins who recommended I
purchase some Babbitt blanks and work on those. That came out of my
frustration with trying to reface moutphieces on the market (which is where
it all began!). I have not advertised them, nor have I sent out fliers or
approached every music shop in the country let alone the state of Illinois
to carry them. I simply have made them available. I'm not defining what
Jim Pyne or anyone else should charge for their mouthpieces. I stated that
I felt a high quality mouthpiece made of hard rubber should be available to
students and professionals. It is up to them to determine if it is of a
similar quality to any other mouthpiece they try. Every mouthpiece fits a
different player in a different way. I don't feel students should HAVE to
pay $170 for a good mouthpiece........however you wish to define good.

> Alsmost anyone can learn to reface a mouthpiece with occasional
>success. To consistently put out a useful, artisitic product requires many,
>many years of practice and experience. The price of a mouthpiece reflects
>many things other than the mere time required for refacing (in your case).

I don't just reface, but I appreciate what you are saying. Both you and
Jim Pyne do much more to the mouthpiece than I do - that is true.

>Like Jim Pyne, most of my time is devoted to hand boring and working the
>chamber. Also, I have spent thousands of dollars on molds, carbide reamers,
>and special tools. I have devoted a good portion of the last 15 years
>researching, handcrafting and developing my mouthpieces. I suspect that
>Jim's work may have started well over 30 years ago. I also run a business
>(as does Mr Pyne) and that requires a lot of time that is not directly paid
>for. There are many costs in running a small business; supplies, time
>devoted to inventory, hours of phone calls with customers, TAXES, time
>devoted to accounting and advertising which in my case includes a fair
>amount of travelling.

Absolutely - and if your mouthpieces reflect that (as your bass clarinet
mouthpieces most assurredly do!), then you are free to charge what you feel
they are worth - and, as Mark has pointed out, time will tell if that was
the best way to go. I will never sell your bass mouthpiece - I like it too
much. There are things about it that I am unable to, in my approach to
mouthpieces, copy.

> I suspect that you really do not intend to make a living from
>refacing mouthpieces or you would have done even the smallest amount of
>research in the area of marketing. This is the area that truly determines
>the price of a mouthpiece. Prices of mouthpieces are in great part
>determined by market standards as well as the maker's popularity. You have
>not even considered that "list prices" need to reflect dealer margins.

Of course I have Clark. I'm not sure why you would say that. I was on the
phone with Phil Baughman yesterday who asked me to send two mouthpieces to
him because a lady in his area had heard about them and was interested in
them. He works at Chicago Band and orchestra. I have spoken with one
other person in the retail business about inclusion of the mouthpiece with
that business as well - that one was initiated by me at the suggestion of
one of my colleagues here at IWU.

> Mouthpieces at the highest level are not just pieces of rubber, they
>fall in that sublime region that is a mixture of craft, science and art.
>Does anyone believe that a mouthpiece stamped "KASPAR" is inherently worth
>$300-600 ?. Those prices are market driven, supply and demand. If you,
>Roger, ever managed to get an artist of the level of Ricardo Morales to use
>one of your mouthpieces would you continue to sell them for $35?

I'm sorry you feel the need to be sarcastic and personal with me here
Clark. I'm sorry that my original post has caused you this level of anger
- that was never my intent.

> I am glad that you still play my bass clarinet mouthpiece even though
>you expressed to me that $195 was too much. Obviously it was not too much
>because you are very happy with the product and are using it with success.

I felt it was when I bought it, as I expressed to you, but you and I
discussed it and I agreed with your reasoning. Your assumption that I
continue to feel the opposite is not accurate. You were very persuasive
then and I believed your rationale then. I believe it is worth what YOU
believe it is worth - because you know what time, effort, skills, etc. are
in the mouthpiece. That I paid that much is a reflection that I agreed
with you isn't it?

______
Roger Garrett
Professor of Clarinet
Director, Concert Band/Symphonic Winds/Titan Band
Advisor, Recording Studio
Illinois Wesleyan University
Office: (309) 556-3268
Fax: (309) 556-3411

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