Klarinet Archive - Posting 000226.txt from 1999/02
From: DHmorgan@-----.com
Subj: Re: [kl] Women and orchestras
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1999 18:30:54 -0500
In a message dated 2/5/99 5:25:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
charette@-----.org writes:
<< From: DHmorgan@-----.com>
> >Ah, but here's the problem. They've done studies that show that even
> in
> >double blind situations, evaluators will rank the performance of
people
> of
> >their race and gender HIGHER than other races and genders. The
> examples I'm
> >thinking of have to do with writing, but I wouldn't be surprised if
it
> weren't
> >the same with music.
You know, the more I think about this, the madder I get. What is wrong
with ranking people that communicate the way you do higher than those
that don't? >>
Good question! Note I have carefully NOT made the argument that bias is
morally wrong and that it's practitioners are bad people. I have merely made
the argument that it exists. Is it wrong to rank people that communicate the
way you do higher than those that don't? Each of us has to search their own
conscience. If bias leads to unequal access based on race and gender to
society's resources, especially those pertaining to human potential and self-
actualization, personally, I think that's a problem. It also means that I'm
missing out if only stick with what's safe, comfortable, 'like me'.
<<It isn't prejudice (since there's nothing to prejudge in a
double blind study).>>
Did I use the word prejudice? I meant not to. Although, take a look at my
other post on this thread for an argument that all perception is 'pre-
judging'.
<< It's just _liking_ certain styles. Yes, a bias. I
have no problem with biases. I normally don't like Chinese opera music
since it's jarring to my ears. So what? There's probably over a billion
people who do enjoy it. It has nothing to do with racism, but everything
to do with what I've been exposed to, my biases. I grew up hearing the
classical music of Europe, the jazz of America, the polkas of the Slavic
nations, the tangos and choros of South America, the guitar stylings of
Spain, French chanson. I like that music. Music that doesn't fit into
those genres is difficult for me to listen to - I'm biased. >>
But clearly, Mark, we are not talking about musical preference. The scenario
I'm positing is not that someone shows up for an Orchestral audition playing
the diggerydoo, thus thrilling the Aboriginal Austrailing judges and
displeasing the Germans. What I'm positing is that, based on the research
that has been done so far, it may be reasonable to suspect that--given the
same peice of Mozart and the most well-crafted double-blind audition, race and
gender bias WILL be present.
<< <snip>
>Everyone in the law school study was aiming for the same
>'style' of writing--legal writing--and the teachers evaluating the
students
>were all using, in their minds, an objective criteria--sound legal
writing.
>But the bias was--and it--still there. Based on this and a lot of
other
>research, it would seem to be a huge jump for people who audition
musicians to
>assume that there ISN'T any bias.
<< Who would claim there isn't bias? Bias towards what they want and expect
to hear. After all, it's an _audition_! You're saying that there's
something wrong when judging is based on biases - I see nothing wrong.
In fact, I think that biases are the only reason _for_ the audition,
otherwise anyone of (whatever could be construed as) the proper talent
level should just be handed the job.
Bias is a word that is used many different ways--I could say I'm bias towards
vanilla ice cream. But Vanilla Ice Cream is not auditioning for my orchestra!
I could say, "I am biased towards clarinetists that don't squeak," but really
what I'm saying is, "If our orchestra has sqeaky clarinetists, no one will buy
tickets to hear us play." Bias, in this context, presupposes the existence of
two different, but equally good players where one is in a sense 'rewarded' not
for their muscial ability, but for belonging to a certain race/gender
group--their group memebership being perceived by clues that the 'evaluators'
are not even aware are shaping their decision to prefer important resources on
one player (access to the orchestra) and deny them to the other. I happen to
be pounding out a line of argument that implies that this probably does
happen. If it does happen, what can be done about it? One solution is to get
more diversity among the 'evaluators'. But if bias is unfairly keeping, say,
women, from rising to high positions in the music world, how are they ever
gonna become qualified to be on the auditioning committee, if they are being
kicked out on the ground floor?
One solution--ahem--might be to create a WOMEN'S ORCHESTRA!!!
<<If I had to
listen to music from other countries and rank them I think you'd find
that I'd rate music I wasn't used to lower that the music I was used to.
That's pretty natural, don't you think?>>
Personally I'd like to take all the rap and country music stations OFF my
radio dial--so I'm with you, brother!
I wrote:
> I would hesitate greatly before making that jump. _Possibly_ it may
have
> something to do with a teaching tradition common to a nationality or
> area, but it probably has nothing to do with race per se.
You wrote
>It would be impractical to design and execute a study for every
category of
>bias imaginable, so it is necessary to do some judicious extrapolation
based
>on previous research.
Please remember the judicious!>>
O.K.!
<< >There may, in fact, be nothing that can be done about it, but that's no
reason
>reject the possibility that it's there.
Which, if you carefully read my posting, I do not claim. I just find it
hard to believe, and making _this_ great an extrapolation would be,
IMNSHO, injudicious.>>
This worries me, though, is the context of the observation that the most
henious 'biases' in the human experience are perpetrated by well-intentioned,
decent individuals that find it 'hard to believe' they even exist.
Cheers,
----
Mark Charette@-----.org
Webmaster, http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet
All-around good guy and devil-may-care flying fool.
"There can be no freedom without discipline." - Nadia Boulanger
>>
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