Klarinet Archive - Posting 000159.txt from 1999/02

From: Richard Bush <rbushidioglot@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] Bore Oil (Planas Article)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:05:22 -0500

Tony Pay wrote:
>
> On Thu, 04 Feb 1999 11:16:47 GMT, I said:
>
> > It does seem to me that he [Roger] has put his finger on the nub of
> > Ted's argument, whether you agree with that argument or not.
>
> As a followup to the question of whether Ted's argument is sound, I've
> contacted some people experienced in the field. Here is one response.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jon Steward, who is technician at Howarths, and who designed the Howarth
> clarinet, says that he remembers that Ted's experiment on absorption was
> done with a new piece of wood.
>
> Jon's own experience over many years of designing, making and repairing
> clarinets and mouthpieces leads him to a different conclusion with
> regard to the behaviour of older wood. Exactly what are the changes in
> the wood as it ages or is played that might cause this change of
> behaviour, he says he isn't qualified to judge. Nor does he know of any
> scientific study that has been done on the subject. (But see below.)
>
> The large numbers of clarinets of varying age that he encounters show
> quite a variation in their absorption of applied linseed oil. In
> particular, clarinets that have cracked externally are often
> particularly absorbent internally under the crack. And some older
> instruments that come in for repair or overhaul take up a lot of oil --
> more than would be explained by the very small penetration described by
> Ted. Exactly how much oil, seems to be related to both age and history:
> older and/or more heavily played instruments tend to be more absorbent.
> Jon says he hasn't undertaken a detailed quantative analysis, however,
> or kept careful records, to support this correlation.
>
> Based on the principle that permeability to oil is a likely indicator of
> undesirable permeability to water, and that a thin layer of wood
> containing oxidised oil is some defence against the entry of water, he
> has always recommended lightly oiling the bore of an instrument
> periodically, (say, once every six months), and suggested that if it
> takes up oil overnight, you repeat the process until it doesn't. You
> can tell whether the oil has been absorbed by the appearance of the
> surface of the wood: unabsorbed oil is visible as a shiny coat, whilst
> absorbed oil leaves the wood its normal matte surface.
>
> As has been pointed out previously in this thread, the entry of water
> can have the effect of changing the dimensions of the bore: in
> particular, the top of the left hand joint may gradually enlarge, with
> undesirable effects both on tuning and response. (John suggest this
> particular change may be a factor in the phenomenon of instruments being
> perceived by some players to 'blow out' after a few years.) Ensuring
> that the oiled layer is maintained helps to avoid this.
>
> Jon agrees with Steve that the oil originally left in the surface layer
> when the instruments leave the factory is gradually leached out by
> moisture and swabbing, and that it is best replaced from time to time.
>
> Though he hasn't done the relevant tests (not being a wood chemist, as I
> said above), he also speculates that other substances may be leached out
> of the wood, and that it is this sort of change, including possibly
> cellular damage, that contributes to increased absorbency. If anyone
> knows of any detailed study of this, he would be very interested to hear
> about it.
>
> Anyhow, be that as it may, his experience is that deeper penetration of
> older wood by oil is established, contra Planas.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> One response to this is to continue to wonder both whether the increased
> absorbency is due to the sort of damage that Jon speculates about, and
> also whether in mild cases it might be completely repaired by feeding
> oil into the wood.
>
> Tony
> --
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
> tel/fax 01865 553339

Thank you Tony for sharing your friends observations and speculations.
While self admittedly unscientific, they are based upon years of
observed behavior and, therefore, should be weighed with some credulity.

I may not have read all posts in this thread carefully, so please excuse
me if I'm running over trodden ground. It seems that little has been
said about the players' digestive juices. I imagine that they also react
to the wood and maybe even to the oils applied. While a good player does
not drool profusely into his instrument, small amounts of saliva are
added to the condensed moisture accumulating in the bore.

When discussing the degree of oil penetration, which most seem to
confirm is very shallow, any observed absorption must be mentioned along
with the type or formula being observed as there are so many organic and
inorganic cocktails available.

Many years ago, Selmer in the United States treated their clarinet
pieces, while still in a rough form, to a proprietary concoction which
they then pressure cooked in large vessels. I recall seeing them high on
a back shelf when touring the Elkhart plant several years ago. It is my
understanding that this practice has been discontinued.

I found out from talking to the folks at Fox Products that they apply
raw linseed oil ONCE and allow it to soak in over night. They seemed
forthright in making this disclosure and, upon further grilling,
emphasized that nothing more, nothing secret was done other than what
they told me. I have no reason to question their answer.

Nothing more to report. Over and Out.

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