Klarinet Archive - Posting 000949.txt from 1999/01

From: "Hiroshi Nagatsuma" <hiroshi@-----.jp>
Subj: Re: [kl] R-13
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 09:03:19 -0500

The opinions of Mr.Tom Ridenour based on his personal experience and logics
contributed very much to my store of knowlege.I have a different opinion
from yours on oldness,since from the standpoint of an amateur
clarinetist/purchaser,considerations are followings.
1.Price
Crampon RC is about 500$ higher than Selmer 10SII.Why?Does it deserve the
performance difference?
Why Prestege is so expensive?
2.Design
Present Prestege has a rectangluar bore connection between bell and lower
joint.Why? Maybe to seek fuller harmonics or darker tones.But I disliked
that.Does old Prestege have this connection? I do not know.But I have a
suspicion that it did not.
What is the bore size?A new R-13 Vintage has a smaller bore size
0.563inches,I guess.Present R-13 has 0.574 inches bore.Smaller bore emits
darker tones.People do not prefer Vintage merely it is literally vintage.But
if I buy a R-13 I will buy an old R-13, which you now have,it is a real
vintage Vintage! Vintage is a new brand name for its good old design.
3.Craftmanship
A famous clarinetist of Cleveland Philphamonic,Cohen you know,uses an old
Prestege.I do not think he is so stupid to like it only because it is old.
Craftmanship. Older better.It is degrading surely in each mass production
company. This is true to all industry sections.Point is which company has a
good policy to keep or even improve its level in a specific section.For
example,Semer clarinet quality became better than use to be,but Selmer
saxophone section is surely degrading since I was astonished to find my new
Serie III soprano has register pad glued! Of course shellac must be used to
have good alignment with tone holes.I used 1987 Prestage and gave it to my
brother since I did not like it,especialy low register tones.Too wide open.I
purchased 1989 Selmer 10SII and was very surprized to find its improvement
comapared with the same one I purchased in 1972. Equipment performances are
changing year by year.Comparison is a very good way to find which is a
better instrument.You use 1968 R-13 and might be talking about different
R-13.Another example.People are seeking old Vandren mouthpieces not because
it is old but because blank quality and craftmanship,old betterYou will be
astonished to find how ill surfaced the tables of present ones are.Some of
us are talking about different quality 5RVs or B40s.And almost all of us
amateurs do not know that fact.Another example is easily found.Moennig
barrel and Moennig tuned old Crampon.After Mr.Moennig passed away,I do not
believe same quality and craftmanship can be expected because I know the
fact he had actually experimented tapers with late Ralph McLane and invented
the barrel and tuning.We do not seek old ones merely because it is literally
old.
4. Intonation
Some of us like scales near pure tone, not equal tempered scale.
Actually,we need a slight intonation change by lip or alternative fingerings
especially playing with a flute or vocal.But I would like to change it,if
necessary, from the good reference scale.A 2-3 cents intonation difference
is a big matter.
5.Customization,why?
For example,Brannenzing.Why every instruments need such an add-on
process? I guess manufacturers do not listen frankly to opinions of
professional players or manufacaturing cost add-ons.If an instrument needs
too much customization,I doubt its design quality, not material nor
craftmanship,the very fundamentals.See RICO grand concert reeds.In classical
worlds,RICO used to be one of second-grade reed manufacturers(sorry RICO
people).But they listened to opinions of professional players all over the
world and designed that reeds.They jumped up in their quality because of
their serene frankness and seriousness.

I always welcome logic and concreteness in discussions.Personal
preferences,especially of professional people,are also very much welcome
since I am an ever-green amateur. And I have a little envy to westerners
frankness. I am a Japanese.

Sincerely,

p.s. I do not think any mediation necessary if it is not a real arbitration.

Good instruments are very
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Fay (LCA) <kevinfay@-----.com>
Subject: [kl] R-13

>I am truly sorry to see this turn into some sort of Celebrity Deathmatch
>between Tom & Francois. In particular, the loss of Francois to our forum
is
>disheartening, and I wish he would reconsider. He is a valuable resource
to
>all of us.
>
>More than anything else, these strings have convinced me what an imperfect
>medium email is. Were we all in a music store trying out horns together,
or
>sharing a pitcher in a tavern later on, I think there would be general
>agreement on much of what was said. Too much of what is written in this
>forum can be misinterpreted as personal attack--and personal attacks are
all
>too easy as well.
>
>Tom has pointed out that the R-13 has some intonation problems. This is
>probably not news to very many of us--especially Francois. Buffet itself
>has a number of different models for sale that ameliorate a lot of these
>tendencies. Heck, they have been playing around with the placement of the
>register key for years! (R-13, down . . . S-1, up . . . Prestige, down,
>then up . . . Festival, up). As noted in another post, its placement is a
>catch 22 because of the multiple purposes the little hole serves. I don't
>think that Buffet--or Francois--ever said the R-13 is perfect; that's why
>they have other horns to sell. It is still immensely popular, though,
>because people can make great sounds on it.
>
>The fact that some intonation tendencies exist, however, doesn't take away
>from the fact that Mr. Carree revolutionized the clarinet world when this
>instrument was introduced. Buffet has had a little marketing problem,
>moreover. Even when they "improve" the instrument, people clamor for the
>old one; the R-13 has steadfastly remained the most popular professional
>instrument they make. (Indeed, one of their marketing initiatives is the
>"Vintage," designed to get a new horn into the hands of the curmudgeon who
>is convinced that the old ones are better!) One reason for this popularity
>may well be that "everyone" plays it--if you have the same horn as your
>teacher, it's easy for him/her to teach you the "correct" fingerings to get
>the most out of the instrument. Because of its popularity, it would be
>business suicide for Buffet to discontinue the R-13. It's what people
want.
>At a street price of $1,700, it's a bargain.
>
>It's true that Tom did not post similar problems over the Leblanc horns, at
>least at first--but to be fair, he may not want to for reasons wholly aside
>from how they play, given his current status with that company. I don't
>think he meant to besmirch Buffet's efforts, or to denigrate the
>achievements of Mr. Carree--hopefully his purpose was just to point out the
>problems, and seek ways to fix them. Perhaps because of the way some of it
>was worded, Francois took offense; again, hopefully a misunderstanding.
>
>Tom likes the Selmer Signature. I tried one, and it's true that the
>intonation appeared to be more stable than my 1969 R-13. I did not like
it,
>though--from a purely subjective standpoint, I though it sounded a little
>dead. While the resistance was very even, it was considerably more than
>what I've come to like. (I'm lazy--I don't want to work so hard.)
>
>When the time comes to replace my R-13s (translation--when my wife lets me
>blow another four grand on instruments, don't hold your breath), I will
>certainly try the R-13 for sale at that time. As well as every other horn
I
>can get my hand on. If I win this week's Lotto, it would probably be a
pair
>of Festivals--I tried some, and liked 'em, which is all that counts. As
>long as people like Francois, Guy Chadash and Tom Ridenour are around,
>though, clarinets will get better. Next year--who knows what we'll get to
>chat about?
>
>May your reeds not chirp,
>
>kjf
>
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