Klarinet Archive - Posting 000736.txt from 1999/01

From: "Fernando Silveira" <fersilv@-----.br>
Subj: Re: [kl] Ridenour's ratings
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 15:36:07 -0500

Dear Roger and dear Tom.
First of all I would like to say that none of you have to became angry with
that subject nor one each other.
On my sight I can show a lot of thing that I agree - sometimes with Roger
and sometimes with Tom.
I would like to coment first Tom postings.
Is very natural, Tom, you defends Leblanc: all clarinets, for you, is like a
one son. And like all of us know, our kids have qualities and defects. In
all situations we protect them, even knowing that they are not perfects. I
believe, when we try one diferent instrument, we try to find the same
qualities of our own clarinet but without the problems that ours have.
About Roger coments.
I agree with Roger when he says that clarinets are the same of cars: a
personal choose. I belive, more then that, that clarinets is more close to
our life that we can think. I would compare it as to choose a wife (of
course is easier to divorce from the clarinet! - just a joke). When we
choose one woman to marry we know that she have A LOT OF DEFECTS, as we
have, but we have to try to live with it. She have, too, A LOT OF QUALITIES.
I believe is more sensible to say that some material (clarinet, reeds,
mouthpiece, barrel, bell, bore, etc, etc, etc) works fine for ME. I always
say to my students that they must have to seach for better material on the
way to play better. For me is more prudent then say "THAT" clarinet is the
best.
Tom, unfurtunely, I had no luck with and Opus and Concerto clarinets. But,
my Eflat clarinet is Noblet (that I realy love mare the my 2 previus
Buffet). I have been playing with RC Prestige for 7 years. Prior to that I
played with R13's. I, personaly, don't feel good with R13's and, on the way
of your exposition, the Opus have the same bore of the R13's. So, I am not
surprise that I've never liked them.
Evem playing with those Buffets I feel that , today, I can get better
instruments them mine. I've tried Patricola, Selmer Signature and Rossi.
Those horns are very very high level clarinets, with a lot of improve
things, like intonation, and, the most important for me, the pitch.
Now, Roger and Tom are fighting from diferent points of view. In my
oppinuion discussions like that can improve a lot the future clarinets and,
the next clarinet generation can learn, here on Klarinet, more and more
about what to seach on a good instrument.
Now I would like to put in discussion one point of view that I have for some
time.
(Please Mr Klock, Tom, Roger and all, that is MY oppinion)
Until the early years of the 40's, Selmer were the best seller clarinets in
entire world. With that possition, and selling clarinets a lot for all over
the world and with the advent of the "sensation" of the saxophone, they
change the priority of the factory devoted to the saxophones all power of
development. We know very well the name of "Mark VI". It was good for the
Selmer but they puted aside the clarinet and allow Buffet to won the market.
Today I fell the inverse way. Buffet believe that already won the market and
don't develop a REALY new clarinet. For 10 or 15 years I could found the
same problems on Buffets. Now Selmer appears with a new horn (better or not,
but with new concepts of holes etc) and, if Buffet don't wake up soon,
Selmer will won, again, the market.

All the best

Fernando
Fernando Silveira
Principal Clarinet - National Symphony - Brazil
Clarinet Professor - Rio de Janeiro University
fersilv@-----.br
(55)(21) 716-2248
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Roger Garrett <rgarrett@-----.edu>
Para: klarinet@-----.org>
Data: Sábado, 16 de Janeiro de 1999 16:45
Assunto: Re: [kl] Ridenour's ratings

>On Sat, 16 Jan 1999, TOM RIDENOUR wrote:
>> What I am saying, Roger, is that Ricardo's winning with the Leblanc
proves
>> that the instrument is no handicap; that is was an equal and viable
>> instrument, and many, many very fine players agree. Larry Combs told me
>> the Opus he had made his old Buffet "feel like an unfinished instrument".
>> Further, to think that someone with Ricardo's skill and command of the
>> instrument would be stupid enough to play something inferior on such an
>> important occasion doesn't stack up with reason; he played it because he
>> thought it was the best; he even had to buy his first Opus clarinets.
>> I don't accept this old rationalization, "Oh, well, he could have won on
>> anything."
>
>No offense Tom, but my post was really only to point out that, while you
>have some good reasons for believing that the Buffet is inferior and the
>the Leblanc is better (for the reasons you have described), there are
>other aspects about the Buffet that people other than Morales and Combs
>like better than the Leblanc. Wonderful players still play on Buffet
>clarinets - some play easily as well as Combs (of whom I have the highest
>regard BTW). Larry told me that he loves his Opus A but is still looking
>for a Bb that plays as well........I guess there are things about every
>instrument that require adjustment.
>
>Because you believe it is inferior....for the reasons you have
>stated.....doesn't necessarily make it inferior, nor does it convince me
>that mine is inferior, that David Shifrin's is inferior, that Yoshinori
>Nakao's is inferior, that ......etc. etc. etc.
>
>> It may be true he could win on a variety of instrument, but he didn't; he
>> won on a Leblanc and it was his free, unfettered choice to do so.
>> But why do people bring up such a statement? What is the psychology
behind it?
>> When a Buffet players hears someone wins with a Buffet do they say ..."
>> Oh, he could have won on anything". Or course not. He just silently
>> reflects, "This is a confirmation that I am playing the best instrument."
>
>Well, I brought it up because you did Tom. Your implication was that he
>won because of the Leblanc. I just wanted to be clear on what you were
>saying. People have won on Buffets too.....even though you feel they are
>inferior (which is fine) - I'm just trying to present the position that
>you are not providing.
>
>> Saying it about a Leblanc player is just a rationalization to excuse them
>> from not thinking seriously about their art and hanging with the status
quo
>> as if its' the unimpeachable sine qua non. They try to confirm this
>> notion and fend off any insecurity by saying such non-sense. They are
self
>> deluded.
>
>Um......you really are overreacting I think Tom. I was, in a very nice
>way, pointing out that some people could win on a Vito clarinet - and I
>personally believe that to be true. I'm not trying to convince you of
>that - your convictions are valuable because they are your's! I simply
>wanted to present other convictions. Actually, I meant it as a compliment
>to Morales and Yeh - and John sounds fantastic on his Yamaha!
>
>> Such a statement is just like the one is Francois' note when he gives
the
>> "argument from the majority".
>> Examine it and you see it holds no water. It does not mean what one want
>> you to think it means.
>
>My apologies for disagreeing with this. I believe it does "hold water."
>Even though we didn't say even the same thing - and you feel we did,
>you have missed the essence of the point of what both he and I have been
>trying to say - that there are good reasons why the majority still use
>Buffet - there is a reason why I didn't switch when the Opus came out and
>I was buying a new set, there are lots, and lots of reasons. You don't
>have to endorse them or even believe in them if you don't want to!
>But.....there are as many good reasons for not playing Leblancs as there
>are for not playing Buffets as there are for not playing Selmers. This is
>the reason we have many to choose from. Some people like Chevrolets, some
>people like Buicks......it really is up to the individual. The Leblanc is
>a wonderful instrument - but because it improves on one or two things that
>were pet peeves for the Buffet R-13, that doesn't mean it is perfect.
>
>> The fact that so many Buffet players have won auditions and hold
positions
>> is only logical due to the simple fact that so many have been brought up
in
>> that tradition; most players play them. But that is breaking down; there
>> are many many fine players playing other instruments to their delight and
>> relief.
>
>No one would argue the last statement.....except that everyone would have
>some kind of relief because they switch. There is always a trade-off.
>But David Shifrin recorded frequently with his Selmer - and he came from a
>pretty traditional set of teachers (that is, if you believe Marcellus and
>Gigliotti are traditional). Leblanc has been around a long time - isn't
>that also a "tradition"?
>
>> So please, let's get away from the subjective and look at instruments for
>> their objective attributes. The "sheep" argument is equivalent to the
>> "lemming" argument.
>
>Clarinets ARE subjective Tom. I have argued this before. Music is
>subjective - reeds and mouthpieces are subjective. To expect us, as
>professionals, to not be subjective in some ways when choosing the tool we
>want to play on is not only contradictory to what we do, it is
>unrealistic. I have my own, subjective beliefs that allow me to teach and
>perform successfully using those beliefs as the center of my success.
>Without such convictions, we would not be successful.
>
>We could sit around and argue why the New York Phil. recording of Mahler 5
>with Bernstein is objectively better and more true to the score than the
>Vienna Phil. with the same conductor 20 years later....but it all boils
>down to subjectivity..........music is subjective to each person. While I
>understand your statement about being objective when selecting an
>instrument, to eliminate Buffet based on your objectivity and then asking
>others to do the same makes them less objective! Hmmmm.......
>
>I like your post that describes your findings and beliefs about the
>instrument. You need to be secure in those beliefs.....it sounds like you
>are. There isn't any reason to attack others, call them "sheep" or impy
>mindless following of the masses just because they don't endorse the Opus
>in the same way you do! It's a clarinet! It's not a religion!
>
>I don't expect people to purchase Buffets, but I still recommend them. I
>have a student with a Selmer 10S - I like the way the horn plays, so I am
>not making recommendations that she switch.
>
>> Let's do what's right and best, not what evey body does. Let's use our
>> minds to really think and understand, our ears to really hear and stop
>> caving into the "argument from the masses".
>
>Again......no offense meant when I say that......the idea that we are
>arguing as a mass.......or a group of people who, you imply, are simply
>mindless souls who don't think or have the ability to think objectively,
>subjectively, logicaly, etc. in the same way that you do doesn't mean it
>is so. I LIKE my Buffet instruments - MUCH better than the Opus clarinets
>I have tried, much better than the Rossi instruments I have tried, much
>better than the Yamaha instruments I have tried, etc....... I hope my
>personal like for my Buffet doesn't, in your eyes, make me lesser of a
>human being? That was not meant with sarcasm......I was honestly stating
>the way your semi-angry response comes across. But.....I believe that by
>trying the instruments and asking others what they think of my playing
>when I am playing the instrument says plenty for objectivity. I continue
>to try them.....and recognize strengths and weaknesses. Period.
>
>Now.....I've said what I think - I don't think I can improve on my
>position - if there is more to be said and you feel compelled to do so,
>please do. Folks who read the list don't need to hear my position any
>longer on this one - but they may be interested in your's and others?
>Please believe me when I say that I really enjoy your posts! I have no
>argument with the first post you made - Francois made all necessary
>arguements regarding any possible historical inaccuracies you might have
>made. The rest is for the list members themselves to decide.
>
>Roger Garrett
____
>Roger Garrett
>Professor of Clarinet
>Director - Concert Band, Symphonic Winds & Titan Band
>Advisor - Recording Studio
>Illinois Wesleyan University
>
>
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