Klarinet Archive - Posting 001231.txt from 1998/12

From: David Renaud <studiorenaud@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] re:Intonation training
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 22:42:10 -0500

Martin Pergler wrote:
Oh yeah...the piano connection. I believe that piano tuners
deliberately tune "out-of-tune" on some notes so that this higher
order interference is better, so that the instrument as a whole
sounds "better".
-------------------------------------
YES and NO

With regards to piano intonation.

I prefer to think of stretching octaves, in piano tuning
not as tuning "out of tune" but as optimizing
what is before you, using our best judgment. We are actual
tuning harmonics other then the fundamental in tune to
optimize what is before us.

You cannot tune fundamentals perfectly on a piano, and
have a very good sounding tuning;the harmonic would be screaming
at each other. As a musician I had no idea just how much this can
be until I started tuning pianos. Just how to compensate
for this is somewhat a matter of taste. Some technicians
prefer allot more stretch then others.

The the higher the inertia the sharper the harmonics are to their
respective fundamentals. Piano strings loose their elasticity
with age, becoming stiffer, and the harmonics go sharper.
Therefore old strings, corroded stings, are harder to tune
because the compromises required can be gross.

This is one reason why small pianos can be so horrible
for pitch in the low bass. The bass stings are made thicker
to compensate for the lack of length. The thicker relationship
in relation to length makes them stiffer-- more inertia sharper
harmonics. It is common on some small spinets, or on very
old strings, to see the relationships even close to the fundamental
become impossible. On some if you line up the 2rd partial(Octave),
the 3rd partial and 4th(double octave) really suck.

Most tuners I know tune something very close to 6:3 octave
through most of the bass on most pianos, where the 6th partial,
of the lower note lines up with the third partial of the upper
octave.

What does this mean for the clarinet?

Perception................

When I play beatless octave against
a lower piano note, then it is stretched
to match the inharmisity of the piano string, but
to which harmonic, if my fundamental is pure, then my
upper harmonics will be flat, for the piano harmonics
become much sharper the higher they are. I probably
park the pitch at some reasonable compromise.

Piano pitch is a moving target........

Also the piano string is stretched upon impact of the hammer,
actually going sharper, and drops considerably as it sustains.
The perception of pitch compounds this, the average pitch
center our ear interprets drops as the upper harmonic
die away first and the fundamental become more
predominant on the sustain. Some tuners pay more attention
to the attack and others more to the sustain.

So much for my rambl'n.

I've been tuning pianos for nearly 20 years, at up
to 20 per week. And although theory is nice some
of the best tuning is still done "from the gut",stretch
is very important, & how much is very subjective.

Tuning is a little like golf, you can study the theory
till your blue in the face, but there is nothing like
practical experience.

David Renaud

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