Klarinet Archive - Posting 001020.txt from 1998/12

From: pollyg@-----. Gulakowski)
Subj: Re: [kl] Opinions and Arguments
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 19:07:55 -0500

Remember, all...
"Argument" in only one of it's meanings (and a sub meaning at that) has
to do with quarreling and disagreement - see Webster's Ninth New
Collegiate Dictionary. Sometimes I think most folks forget the
non-emotional meanings of the word...

I am very OPINIONATED about ridicule - it's ridiculous (reed-i-culous -
for clarinetists) and makes the ridiculer (?) look worse than the subject
of same.

Paulette

On Sat, 26 Dec 1998 19:37:23 +0000 Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
writes:
>Your opinions are your own.
>
>Your arguments aren't.
>
>There is nothing much you can do with an opinion except acknowledge
>it,
>or express another opinion, leaving the original one unaltered.
>
>But there is something that you can do with an argument: criticise it.
>
>Indeed, it's important to do so, because you might improve it. And to
>criticise an argument, you obviously have to read it.
>
>Now, a criticism of an argument is also an argument, and can itself be
>criticised. It is *not* just an opinion.
>
>And, because to criticise any argument you have to read it, it is an
>especially valid part of criticising a criticism to show where a
>critic
>has failed to address the argument they purported to have criticised,
>or where they have addressed instead some other argument they have
>made
>up.
>
>So, I personally expect to have my arguments criticised -- indeed, I
>invite such criticism -- but I retain the right to argue against those
>criticisms for not addressing my arguments, as and when they do not.
>
>Of course, there is much of value here that is not argument at all.
>Opinions, advice, humour ... it's very rich.
>
>But I would nevertheless like to think that the list would support me
>in
>this attitude to postings that do constitute argument. It would also
>be
>some support to the tottering structure of rational discourse in our
>world.
>
>Now, beyond that, I want to announce a personal choice -- I am making
>a
>New Year's resolution.
>
>Last year's arguments are last year's arguments. There are still a
>few
>unaddressed nonsenses wailing away out there, but, let them be. In
>the
>future, though, if the necessity arises, I undertake to point out, and
>continue to point out (gently to begin with) failures to adhere to the
>standards of rational discourse, even when (or perhaps that should be
>especially when) the person posting happens to occupy an important
>position in an institute of higher education, or has a strong
>influence
>over the young and/or inexpert. I encourage others to adopt the same
>attitude towards 'argument' postings, including my own.
>
>What's more, should the arguments escalate, and when in the end
>pointing
>out failures of logic itself fails -- far from agreeing to avoid using
>ridicule, my resolution is that I positively reserve the right to
>switch
>to using ridicule in order to discredit unsound thinking and unsound
>posting.
>
>However, I undertake to exercise that right only very rarely, and in
>extreme circumstances, because I'm quite a reasonable chap, actually.
>
>But sometimes,....unprofessional? You ain't seen nothing yet.
>
>Now, it's Roger who calls me unprofessional, isn't it?
>
>Well, in his case, he's probably turning over a new leaf himself, I
>shouldn't wonder.
>
>Happy New Year, Roger. (And to the mice, who reappeared at the end of
>your last but one post, I noticed:-)
>
>Tony
>--
> _________ Tony Pay
> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com
> tel/fax 01865 553339
>
>"Believing Truth is staring at the sun
>Which but destroys the power that could perceive."
>.
>
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