Klarinet Archive - Posting 001009.txt from 1998/12

From: "Scott Morrow" <scottdmorrow@-----.com>
Subj: Re: [kl] Opinions and Arguments
Date: Sun, 27 Dec 1998 18:10:38 -0500

Donna,

I have anything BUT time on my hands! Not even enough time to write
Tony's post, which you attributed to me!

Happy New Year!

-Scott

>

>Back to Scott:

>You have toooo much time on your hand.... or need something besides a

>keyboard or a clarinet to fill (feel) it.......

>You seem to NEVER let things go.....

>So I am going to.....

>YOU enjoy listening to yourself..... How could you ever measure up to

>yourself?

>

>At 07:37 PM 12/26/98 +0000, you wrote:

>>Your opinions are your own.

>>

>>Your arguments aren't.

>>

>>There is nothing much you can do with an opinion except acknowledge
it,

>>or express another opinion, leaving the original one unaltered.

>>

>>But there is something that you can do with an argument: criticise it.

>>Indeed, it's important to do so, because you might improve it. And to

>>criticise an argument, you obviously have to read it.

>>

>>Now, a criticism of an argument is also an argument, and can itself be

>>criticised. It is *not* just an opinion.

>>

>>And, because to criticise any argument you have to read it, it is an

>>especially valid part of criticising a criticism to show where a
critic

>>has failed to address the argument they purported to have criticised,

>>or where they have addressed instead some other argument they have
made

>>up.

>>

>>So, I personally expect to have my arguments criticised -- indeed, I

>>invite such criticism -- but I retain the right to argue against those

>>criticisms for not addressing my arguments, as and when they do not.

>>

>>Of course, there is much of value here that is not argument at all.

>>Opinions, advice, humour ... it's very rich.

>>

>>But I would nevertheless like to think that the list would support me
in

>>this attitude to postings that do constitute argument. It would also
be

>>some support to the tottering structure of rational discourse in our

>>world.

>>

>>Now, beyond that, I want to announce a personal choice -- I am making
a

>>New Year's resolution.

>>

>>Last year's arguments are last year's arguments. There are still a
few

>>unaddressed nonsenses wailing away out there, but, let them be. In
the

>>future, though, if the necessity arises, I undertake to point out, and

>>continue to point out (gently to begin with) failures to adhere to the

>>standards of rational discourse, even when (or perhaps that should be

>>especially when) the person posting happens to occupy an important

>>position in an institute of higher education, or has a strong
influence

>>over the young and/or inexpert. I encourage others to adopt the same

>>attitude towards 'argument' postings, including my own.

>>

>>What's more, should the arguments escalate, and when in the end
pointing

>>out failures of logic itself fails -- far from agreeing to avoid using

>>ridicule, my resolution is that I positively reserve the right to
switch

>>to using ridicule in order to discredit unsound thinking and unsound

>>posting.

>>

>>However, I undertake to exercise that right only very rarely, and in

>>extreme circumstances, because I'm quite a reasonable chap, actually.

>>

>>But sometimes,....unprofessional? You ain't seen nothing yet.

>>

>>Now, it's Roger who calls me unprofessional, isn't it?

>>

>>Well, in his case, he's probably turning over a new leaf himself, I

>>shouldn't wonder.

>>

>>Happy New Year, Roger. (And to the mice, who reappeared at the end of

>>your last but one post, I noticed:-)

>>

>>Tony

>>--

>> _________ Tony Pay

>> |ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk

>> | |ay Oxford OX2 6RE GMN family artist: www.gmn.com

>> tel/fax 01865 553339

>>

>>"Believing Truth is staring at the sun

>>Which but destroys the power that could perceive."

>>.

>>

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>>

>>

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