Klarinet Archive - Posting 000270.txt from 1998/12

From: "line ringuette" <lringuet@-----.net>
Subj: Re: [kl] War of the Words
Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 02:06:10 -0500

Hi there,

I would like to offer another viewpoint (my own) to this particular thread,
one that hasn't been brought up yet. While I do enjoy intense discussions
about clarinettly topics, I do sometimes refrain from responding to certain
posts or from asking questions as I fear getting slammed. I have submitted
posts in the past which were turned around by one of the members of the War
of Words and consequently, never got an answer to my question and felt that
I was made to look like an incompetent clarinet player. I've also been
dragged into conversations (some off-list) that I haven't appreciated or
asked for.

I know that to participate in these public discussions, one must be able to
withstand critique but I don't like the feeling of fear I get everytime I
go to post something (it is slightly alleviated now.) Whenever I do post
something I comb through it thoroughly to make sure that I haven't included
any ambiguous phrases that could be misinterpreted, however that's not
always enough!

I don't know that there is an answer here (or that there should be?) I
just wanted to bring up my thoughts, and I do wonder if there are others
who feel the same way I do.
p.s. I did meet a few at the clarinetfest pizza-party who did allude to
this themselves.

Line Ringuette
lringuet@-----.net

----------
> From: MARY A. VINQUIST <kenshaw@-----.com>
> To: Klarinet List <klarinet@-----.org>
> Subject: [kl] War of the Words
> Date: December 5, 1998 1:01 PM
>
> Lelia Loban wrote, a propos of Roger Garrett's leaving the list:
>
> >I was afraid this had happened, since someone called him "an idiot,"
> >others more or less said they didn't want Roger around here any more....
> >I haven't subscribed to the list long enough to be aware of the whole
> >history of whatever happened between Roger and other subscribers....
>
> As Leila supposes, it's more complicated than that. I've been reading
> the Klarinet list for nearly 3 years, and I have seen Roger in good form
> and bad.
>
> The problem is inherent in the nature of e-mail. You have the entire
> message in front of you, in editable format, and the temptation is nearly
> overwhelming to clip and reprint one sentence or paragraph at a time
> and respond to it. This legalistic method (and I'm a lawyer) is good for
> deep philosophical argument between two people, but it may be the
> worst way to carry on a discussion in a public forum. It quickly
> degenerates into rebuttal, sur-rebuttal, sur-sur-rebuttal and on and on.
>
> Unfortunately, Roger, and some others on the list (e.g., Jonathan Cohler)
> have traded shots back and forth for weeks on end, each accusing the
> other of not having understood (or having deliberately misunderstood)
> what was said a dozen generations back.
>
> This is made worse by the fact that e-mail is not done face to face,
which
> leads to ever louder shouting and anger. And this, in turn, is probably
> made worse because Roger and Jonathan are important teachers and
> players, and each is a big frog in his little pond. Roger has a
university
> position and has the final word there, and Jonathan is teaching and
> playing in situations where he is the central personality. Each of them
> has earned his position, each has territory to defend, and neither is
> inclined, by personality or experience, to take lightly any indication
> of criticism or disrespect.
>
> I think I'm not the only one to have gotten thoroughly annoyed by this
> style of debate, particularly because each exchange usually includes
> all earlier exchanges, resulting in ever longer messages containing old
> material quoted half a dozen layers deep. I get the list in digest form,

> so I can't just hit "delete" but have to wade through the mess.
>
> Finally, it was not just anyone who made the "idiot" remark. It was Mark
> Charette, who runs the Sneezy board and is more familiar than anybody
> with these shenanigans. If anyone has earned the right to say what he
> thinks, it's Mark. I agree with him 100%. Roger is an important
> teacher and personality, and we need him on the Klarinet board, but
> he gets too annoyed, and too annoying, too often, to be simply given free
> rein. If he wants to go off and sulk in his tent, so be it. I think
he'll
> be
> back, and I'll be glad to read what he has to say.
>
> This board is a great place to try out new ideas and discuss them with
> people who have strong opinions and something intelligent to say. Roger,
> Jonathan, Tony Pay, Dan Leeson, Ed Lacy, Clark Fobes and many other
> important teachers and personalities make this a world-class resource,
> and the community of clarinetists is lucky to have it available.
>
> Roger has earned some elbow room, and nobody begrudges him the
> right to express his opinions. I think, though, that he has pushed the
> limits, more than once, and has been a bit of a bully. Mark had good
> reason to be annoyed, and good reason to say so.
>
> Come back Roger. All is forgiven. We will roast the fatted calf, God
will
> supply the RAM, and we'll all have rice pudding for dessert.
>
> Ken Shaw
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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