Klarinet Archive - Posting 000186.txt from 1998/12

From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [kl] Wagner's Ring again
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 21:03:10 -0500

> From: MX%"klarinet@-----.23
> Subj: Re: [kl] Wagner's Ring again

> I do understand your premise. However, I do not find the message. The myths
> that Wagner created are based on his collecting and remaking of myths, his
> interpretation of ancient myths. But we bring to myths our own interpretation
> (Freud) there is no preexisting and set meaning of a myth. If you view
> Wagner's operas this way, it is because that is what you want them to mean
> regardless as to what Wagner saw. Joseph Campbell offers great insight into
> this area and consequently he is labeled as a racist and anti-Semite which he
> found to be irrational.
>
> Mark Gustavson

You do not see the message because it is not part of the myths associated
with the ring. The message is contained in Wagner's metaphor of smells,
speech, sight, gait, etc. There are independent of the Norse myths and
are irrelevant to them.

Do you want a specific of the messages that Wagner gives? I did give
them a long while back and we may just be having a communication problem.
You must understand how AND WHY he uses the allegory of smell, and the
implications that derive from that usage.

>
>
> >
> >
> > Nice post Mark. But it misinterprets the premise I suggested. I do
> > very much separate the man (and his ideals) from his music. If his
> > work product were not so blatanly racist I would very much enjoy
> > listening to and playing his music.
> >
> > What I cannot separate is the message of his operas from the music. It
> > has nothing to do with Wagner the man, Wagner the racist, or Wagner, the
> > author of Das Judentum in Musik. It has to do with the plot of
> > Siegfried, Meistersinger, Gotterdammerung, Parsifal, etc.
> >
> > This entire problem has nothing to do with the man's beliefs, as
> > repugnant as they are. It has everything to do with the fact that
> > his operas are a constant and public restatement of repugnant racist
> > and antisemitic views.
> >
> > Wagner does not bother me. His operas bother me.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > =======================================
> > Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
> > leeson@-----.edu
> > =======================================
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
=======================================
Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
leeson@-----.edu
=======================================

-------------------------------------------------------------------------