Klarinet Archive - Posting 000165.txt from 1998/12

From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: [kl] Wagner's Ring again
Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 16:52:24 -0500

> From: MX%"klarinet@-----.69
> Subj: Re: [kl] Wagner's Ring again

>
>
> The following is a passage from Schoenberg's "Style and Idea" that
> adds something to this thread. (Mind you Schoenberg, as well as Mahler,
> were more than aware of Wagner's essay Das Judentum in der Musik,"Judaism
> in Music"):
>
> "This happened to me. In my development there was a phase during
> which I took a negative, even an inimical stand against Wagner, whom I
> had previously honored with the highest. It seems that I expressed
> myself about it to Mahler with violent and arrogant words. Although
> visibly shocked, he replied with impressive calm that he knew such state
> of mind, he too had passed through such stages of development. This
> would be nothing lasting; for one always comes back again and again to
> the truly great ones. They stand unshakably in their places and it
> is commendable never to lose our respect for them."
>
> I think these two men were able to separate the man from the music and
> I would like think it is possible if not necessary to separate the person
> from their art. If one takes the stance that one will not listen to Wagner
> or R. Strauss because of what they represent to some politically, then
> how does one explain the music of every composer after Wagner? For
> every composer after Wagner has been deeply affected by his contribution
> to music--either influenced by it by imitating it or by avoiding to be
> influenced by it. Debussy used to love to mock Wagner but "Afternoon
> of a Faun" is more or less a homage to Wagner. Do we all inherit
> Wagner's problem? Where does one draw the line if their isn't a separation
> between the man and the music. In addition, I don't see many
> people avoiding Beethoven's music yet he made anti-Semitic remarks in his
> letters. Wagner is picked on because he dealt with mythology and
> Nazi party dealt with mythology and tried to tie his thinking into theirs.
> The difference is that Wagner was
> creating art whereas the Nazi were destroying lives.
>
> Mark Gustavson
> Composer/clarinetist

Nice post Mark. But it misinterprets the premise I suggested. I do
very much separate the man (and his ideals) from his music. If his
work product were not so blatanly racist I would very much enjoy
listening to and playing his music.

What I cannot separate is the message of his operas from the music. It
has nothing to do with Wagner the man, Wagner the racist, or Wagner, the
author of Das Judentum in Musik. It has to do with the plot of
Siegfried, Meistersinger, Gotterdammerung, Parsifal, etc.

This entire problem has nothing to do with the man's beliefs, as
repugnant as they are. It has everything to do with the fact that
his operas are a constant and public restatement of repugnant racist
and antisemitic views.

Wagner does not bother me. His operas bother me.

>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
leeson@-----.edu
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