Klarinet Archive - Posting 000891.txt from 1998/11

From: Tony@-----.uk (Tony Pay)
Subj: Re: [kl] Re: Should I..? [No, you shouldn't.]
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 00:30:40 -0500

On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:19:40 -0600 (CST), nleupold@-----.edu said:

> On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Tony Pay wrote:
>
> > I just think that it would be rather hard work here to challenge all
> > the definite statements about what is and is not the way to play
>
> Precisely. Thus, rather than attempting to establish a protocol
> from the active stance (i.e.; realtive to all *senders* of messages),
> it makes greater sense (and is more realistic) to submit that all
> posts should be read with a critical mind...and no small amount of
> prejudice relative to the accuracy and conclusiveness of content.

You are being selective here about your quoting. I'm not trying to
establish a protocol. I'm simply saying that definitive statements
about what you *should* do, out of context, are not merely subjective
and opinionated, but logically incoherent, in a forum like this. In the
context of a lesson this may not be so -- though sometimes,
unfortunately, it is.

This is not just a question of opinion, though your previous statement
would have it be so:

> So while you and Dan Leeson and others of varying genuine and
> self-purported advancement probably feel that your personal tastes and
> needs are not being fully met by the daily discourse, understand that
> every other member of the list feels that way too.

...it is a statement about the nature of enquiry itself. Otherwise we
enter the postmodernist nightmare that anything anybody says is as good
as anything else anybody else says, regardless of logic. Being a
musician itself is a process of enquiry.

You seem to find it offensive that I want to argue this. At any rate
you certainly seem to find it necessary to take a high moral tone.
Perhaps you think, mistakenly, that it's the same issue as the highly
emotive subject of free speech and censorship.

I, on the other hand find it offensive to encounter the results of what
I would say are unhealthy relationships between those who *know* and
those who *want only to be told*, in the world of music. It's
sufficiently prevalent to be more than worth while pointing out, even
at the risk of damaging the exquisite balance of this list.

> > Particularly if you're giving advice to an inexperienced player.

> Precisely my point again.

You're very *acquisitive*, out of context, aren't you? What I said was,
it's a good idea to have a sort of mental alarm bell that goes off
whenever you start a sentence that contains a 'should'. Particularly if
you're giving advice to an inexperienced player.

I meant on this list, but if you're a teacher, it's still true. You
might in this case go ahead, but I know one or two people whose pupils
might have benefited from such an arrangement.

> The admonition [to read with a critical mind] should be communicated
> with particular emphasis with regard to the younger, less experienced
> players on the list.

Here's a 'should' I'd let stand.

> A helpful suggestion might be to run all ideas by the private teacher
> before acting on what is offered via the forum.

Not at the expense of *trying* it.

Look, I'm not against *trying* anything. What I'm against is the notion
that we think we *know* what we should do.

This is damaging to the playing of the teacher, too. You can say, look,
I do this, you do the same. And sometimes it works, sometimes not.
Then, depending on the circumstances, you might have them try something
else.

*Sometimes*, giving a lesson, you find another way *for yourself*.

> The private teacher might not have all of the right answers either,

Yup.

> but they are the primary guide for interpretation and, as Roger Garret
> pointed out, younger players literally need clear structure and
> directions in order to move forward with greatest efficiency. With
> time and experience, players develop critical minds of their own and
> can swallow their own grain of salt rather than first passing it
> through a teacher taste test.

And then they are their own teacher. The process never stops.

But notice, if you *always* want to say, you *should* do it like this,
then it's quite likely that the process *has* stopped.

Tony
--
_________ Tony Pay
|ony:-) 79 Southmoor Rd Tony@-----.uk
| |ay Oxford OX2 6RE
tel/fax 01865 553339

"...his playing soars so freely, one is aware of witchcraft without
noticing a single magical gesture."
(C.D.F.Schubart on the harpsichord playing of C.P.E.Bach)

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