Klarinet Archive - Posting 000520.txt from 1998/11

From: "Ed Maurey" <edsshop@-----.ca>
Subj: Re: [kl] silver and rubber (was wolf tones)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 15:42:40 -0500

Roger,
For better or worse, I seriously doubt if there has been a single clarinet
made with stainless steel keys. Those old hard rubber clarinets had
nickel-silver keys. [There is very little nickel and zero silver in
nickel-silver.] Howerver, some of them were nickel plated.

Yes, the sulfur in hard rubber will encourage tarnishing of NS. The NS is
an alloy of mostly zinc, copper and a little nickel. It's copper that
reacts with the sulfur. Modern clarinets are still NS under their various
platings.

Ed Maurey
> From: Roger Shilcock
<roger.shilcock@-----.uk>
> To: klarinet@-----.org
> Subject: Re: [kl] silver and rubber (was wolf tones)
> Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 5:11 AM
>
> Hmmm. in that case, 1) why were they normally made with stainless steel
> keys, and 2) why do they go greeny-yellow with age?
> Surely it is (or was) not possible to harden natural rubber without
> sulphur? This is why it's called "vulcanization", sulphur being
> thought of as the typical product of volcanoes.
> .
> Roger Shilcock
>
>
> On Fri, 13 Nov 1998,
> Chuck Trimble CPA wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 15:15:59 -0600
> > From: Chuck Trimble CPA <trimble@-----.net>
> > Reply-To: klarinet@-----.org
> > To: klarinet@-----.org
> > Subject: Re: [kl] silver and rubber (was wolf tones)
> >
> > there is no problem with silver and hard rubber. there is no sulfur in
the
> > rubber clarinets. chuck trimble
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LeliaLoban@-----.com>
> > To: klarinet@-----.org>
> > Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 9:59 AM
> > Subject: [kl] silver and rubber (was wolf tones)
> >
> >
> > >I mentioned that the hard rubber "Carl Fischer" stencil clarinet I
bought
> > >recently turns out to have silver-plated keys.
> > >
> > >Roger Shilcock wrote,
> > >>>Silver plating is a stupid thing to do on an ebonite instrument. The
> > sulphur
> > >in the rubber reacts with silver; this is removeable, no doubt, but in
> > >removing it some of the plating goes too.>>
> > >
> > >That was also my impression, but now I'm wondering about the chemical
> > >differences between soft rubber (as in rubber bands) and hard rubber
(as in
> > >clarinets, mouthpieces and fountain pens). I don't question the
warnings
> > >against letting soft rubber come in contact with silver. I've seen
the
> > damage
> > >that results. For instance, one of my silver-plated saxes has
permanent
> > black
> > >streaks from a rubber band that a former owner used to close a vent
key
> > with a
> > >broken spring. (I consider myself frugal, but that's REALLY cheap!)
Silver
> > >polish won't take off those marks. I haven't found anything else that
will
> > do
> > >the job without risking the plate.
> > >
> > >However, the fact is that although this rubber clarinet must be about
half
> > a
> > >century old, the silver plated keys are undamaged, despite moisture
> > conditions
> > >inside the case that permitted other types of corrosion, though it
wasn't
> > >extensive. The case needed cleaning up, the corks and pads needed
> > replacing
> > >and I removed minor rust from some of the screws and screw holes.
> > >(Fortunately the threads were all right. WD-40 released the screws.)
The
> > >blackening of the silver in the tight places (between the trill keys,
for
> > >instance) was ordinary tarnish. It came off easily with silver
polish. I
> > >found nothing like the damage that I've seen elsewhere from rubber
bands.
> > >
> > >I also own several old hard rubber sax and clarinet mouthpieces with
> > ligatures
> > >and caps plated with silver both inside and out. The silver shows
none of
> > the
> > >characteristic damage, despite decades of direct contact with the hard
> > rubber.
> > >My husband collects old writing pens. Some of the hard rubber ones
from
> > the
> > >early 1900s have decorative bands and silver filagree applied directly
and
> > >tightly to the rubber. He finds no damage, either on the surfaces
that
> > >contact the rubber (filagree) or the ones separated by small amounts
of air
> > >space (clips). He thinks that something about the manufacturing
process
> > locks
> > >up the sulfur in hard rubber and makes it less likely to interact with
> > silver.
> > >Maybe someone with a better scientific background than mine can
explain
> > >further.
> > >
> > >Lelia
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >"A general flavor of mild decay,
> > >But nothing local, as one might say."
> > >--Oliver Wendell Holmes, "The Deacon's Masterpiece"
> > >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> >
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
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