Klarinet Archive - Posting 000092.txt from 1998/10

From: "Steven J. Goldman M.D." <gpsc@-----.com>
Subj: RE: [kl] Wagner
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 02:32:16 -0400

You bring up a very good point. I would never deny the historical importance
of Wagner from a technical point of view. The strongest poisons can be
transformed into life saving drugs, and Wagner's techniques can be used to
create deeply moving music that can ennoble the soul, as the greatest music
should. And I don't think anyone suggests that if Wagner had died as an
infant, the rise of Hitler would have been prevented. It's just that Wagner
expoused the virulent anti-Semitism that evolved into Nazi philosophy (if
you can call the muddle of Mien Kampf philosophy). Maybe I'm a moth too
close to the flame. Hardly a religious Jew, I do identify myself with that
religion, and even if I did not, the Nazis would have killed me none the
less. I feel that one's beliefs have repercussions, and a responsible person
should take that into account. If one believes that Blacks are lower forms
of life than whites, and publicly defends this belief, they are abetting
those who commit hate crimes and have a certain responsibility by giving the
perpetrators a bases for their actions. And as to Wagner being an egomaniac
out of touch with reality, so was Hitler. That's no excuse.

As to Shakespeare and Dickens, their view was of a different variety. It was
one of the stereotypes of their ages, and while sad, it did not attempt to
make the Jew into less than a human being, just a flawed one. In passing,
Shakespeare never met a Jew. The were expelled from England in the reign of
Richard II (the Lionhearted) and were not allowed to return until the 17th
C. He just used the stereotype he was taught. Unfortunately,humans tend to
develop stereotypes (the human brain like to classify everything), and I
guess we have to live with that fact for now, but there is a moral line you
can cross. Wagner did.

Finally, if one likes Wagner's music, more power to you. You may not have
experienced the type of prejudice he believed in, and can somehow glean
something ennobling in his music. Just understand that those that cannot
tolerate the man/music have a valid point from their moral perspective.

May music help bring all people into one brother/sisterhood, living in peace
with each other.

I wish I was better able to put my thoughts into words but there you have
it.

Steven Goldman
sjgoldman@-----.com

-----Original Message-----
From: HatNYC62@-----.com]
Subject: [kl] Wagner

Interesting opinions. Wagner seems to loom larger in music history with
every
passing year as his innovations in harmony, counterpoint and orchestration
are
studied and discovered anew. For years he was grouped with Liszt and Berlioz
as one of many innovators. Now he towers above them, and with good reason.

I just don't see how Wagner can be held responsible personally for what
happened after his lifetime. He was an egomaniac, often out of touch with
reality, and when it came time to put himself in personal danger for his
political beliefs, a coward. He alienated everyone who got near him,
including
most of his most ardent admirers. There is no way to know what his reaction
to
Hitler might have been. He might have thought him an idiot.

Ironically, his most often played work is the prelude to Meistersinger, the
music of which represents the Entry music of the Nuremberg Mastersingers,
who
set the rules for what is art song and what is not. Intentionally overly
pompous and grand, I don't think he intended it to be seen as his greatest
achievement. So the last laugh there is on him.

We don't regard Shakespeare nearly as comtemptibly for the Merchant of
Venice,
nor Dickens for Oliver Twist and other works. These works are much more
widely
known and studied than Wagner's, and present a much more readily absorbed
version of anti-semitism than what is found in Wagner's operas.

As for the Ring, maybe some of it seems absurd. But compared to the opera
that
came before it (and much that came after)? And it all came from one brain,
words and music. Remarkable. I can't imagine the number of hours it must
have
taken just to copy it down. Parsifal? Having played it, 6 hours of heavenly
harmonic never-never land (as in never quite finding the tonic). What can I
say, I have been seduced.

David Hattner, NYC

-------------------------------------------------------------------------