Klarinet Archive - Posting 000166.txt from 1998/07

From: "RJ Carpenter" <emerald1@-----.net>
Subj: [kl] Re: Mozart and the V word
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:06:40 -0400

My sincerist apologies to Dan; it seems we're pretty much on the same side
anyway. I guess neither one of us understood what the other was trying to
say at first. I happy to see at least part of this conflict resolved.
Maybe I just need to read more carefully occasionally...
Thanks,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tristan Carpenter- Clarinetist, Saxophonist, and Bassist.
emerald1@-----.net
www.geocities.com/bourbonstreet/bayou/2048
"...music is the voice of the soul."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 06:01:49 EDT
>>To: klarinet@-----.org
>>From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
>>Subject: RE: [kl] Re: Mozart and the V word
>>
>>> From: MX%"klarinet@-----.71
>>> Subj: [kl] Re: Mozart and the V word
>>
>>> P: Dan, that was well written and argued cleanly. However, I still say
>>> it is not really possible to know how an 18th century performer actually
>>> sounded and whether or not that sound matched the composer's intentions.
>>> How would Beethoven know??? No written descriptions, no matter how
>>> detailed, can describe a sound. Even a recording is not totally
>>> adequate.
>>
>>In effect, what you state is that no arguments that can be advanced
>>on the basis of reportorial information can possibly satisfy you,
>>and in that case, you are a free agent to do as you wish.
>>
>>Since this is the case, it does not pay to continue such a dialogue.
>>Do as you wish. Make up the rules as you go along. That is
>>probably enough to get you a gig or two with the New England Polka
>>band that does all the White Eagle Halls of Massachussets. It will
>>not get you far in the world of music that I suspect you would like
>>to belong to.
>>
>>Music is NOW. Anyway, I write more from the perspective of
>>> the consumer and the teacher. I am not, and never wanted to be, a solo
>>> performer. I've heard music with no heart - music lauded by those
>>> blessed with erudition - and I'd rather spend the time programming my
>>> computer to play that way than listen to it in many cases.
>>
>>Let's change tactics. You talk a great deal about music with no
>>heart. Let me be absolutely serious in the following question:
>>do you really believe that the human heart has any role whatsoever
>>in music except for the pumping of the blood through the body?
>>
>>I doubt if you do believe that, somehow, the heart is engaged in
>>emotional issues. That's poetry and love stories. In life, the
>>romantic and/or sexual impulse (which is really what we are talking
>>about when we speak of this element of music) comes from somewhere
>>other than the heart. It is clearly not the liver, the spleen, the
>>left lung, etc. So what organ in the human body (and it is not that
>>organ either) is responsible for the erotic or romantic in music?
>>
>>Without become too personal, exactly what part of your body produces
>>all of this romance about which you seem to be inordinately attracted?
>>You infer that intellectual approaches to music are as exciting as
>>programming your computer, so you certainly know where that aspect
>>of music comes from; i.e., the head. OK. I'll accept that.
>>
>>But from where does all the gooey stuff come that attracts you, and
>>once we understand where it comes from, then maybe we can find a
>>way to understand it better.
>>
>>The difficulty in speaking about music precisely is that eventually
>>you have to be so precise that you wind up throwing out a lot of
>>junk that has become almost biblical over the years, like "dark
>>sound" and "play from the heart" and "German style" and those
>>million phrases that have absolutely no meaning (and even less
>>value) that have become a part of your belief system.
>>
>>>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 09:39:14 EDT
>To: klarinet@-----.org
>From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
>Subject: RE: [kl] Re: Mozart and the V word
>
>> From: MX%"klarinet@-----.00
>> Subj: [kl] Re: Mozart and the V word
>
>> I think we all know that "playing from the heart" doesn't actually mean
>> playing from the heart; but it's a phrase that still has meaning. It
simply
>> means that you should play "spiritually", utilizing the emotions that a
>> certain piece brings to you; and than convert that into musical energy.
If
>> you don't do this; then you will be one of the most boring, least
successful
>> soloist ever.
>
>This is exactly my point!! The idea of playing from the heart is simply
>a device we have invented because the heart, in the middle ages, was
>thought to be the seat of romance. But then where do these emotions
>really come from, the very emotions that we try to put into our playing?
>
>They come from the head, and that is what I said 5 notes ago. That it
>is the intellect which is responsible for the erotic nature of music,
>and it is the intellect that increasesthe eroticism or completely
>eliminatesit. Just one of the many tools that does that is vibrato,
>about which I have not had much to say, but it is wrong to think that
>it does not play a role in eroticism.
>
>The nature of vibrato causes the music to tremble, which is exactly
>the effect you want in eroticism; i.e., trembling with passion.
>
>So when I hear comments such as "play from the heart" and I riposte,
>"Nonesense, play from the head" I'm simply directing you to the more
>erotic organ in the body, namely, the brain!!
>
>And it is the proper application of the brain to music that makes it
>so passionate, erotic, sexual, and hot pants. That application is
>often a constant knowledge of appreciation of the details of
>performance practice whose devices were used by the players of that
>time to achieve the same kind of eroticism that you want to do with
>an organ that simply pumps blood.
>
>I am glad to see that you are thinking about the matter and not just
>blinding following whatever it was you were thinking about last week.
>
>Most of the passionate nature of music is the strict application of
>specific tools used to simulate passion. You could not play the
>Brahms sonatas 20 nights in a row with the same passion. You have
>to simulate that passion with things like vibrato.
>
>> I also think that it is safe to say that most of this argument about
>> vibrato and emotion has been based on playing in the solo setting; as the
>> argument originated from the mention of Kv. 622. I would think that very
>> few of us would use vibrato or a questionable interpretation of a piece
>> within an orchestral setting; I know that my orch. would kill me!;-)
>> I apologize about my earlier comment of you playing the part of the
>> "arrogant fool". It was not meant as an insult; it was only meant to
convey
>> a point; I have great respect for you, and don't yourself be lead to
believe
>> otherwise. I just don't always agree with you.
>> Sincerely,
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Tristan Carpenter- Clarinetist, Saxophonist, and Bassist.
>> emerald1@-----.net
>> www.geocities.com/bourbonstreet/bayou/2048
>> "...music is the voice of the soul."
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> >

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