Klarinet Archive - Posting 001537.txt from 1998/04

From: Jonathan Cohler <cohler@-----.net>
Subj: [klarinet] Ad hominem attacks are not appreciated
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 15:35:46 -0400

Roger Garrett wrote:

>I don't want to see more
>of the same, "Wrong.....", "You didn't read my post correctly....", "You
>obviously know nothing about physics....", "You can't change the laws of
>physics....." "Completely inaccurate......", kind of arguements come from
>the same source for this again......it is so depressing to see that kind
>of disdain/disregard for other people and their feelings!

One of these quotations stands out as being an ad hominem remark, which is
clearly inappropriate on this list-- namely:

"You obviously know nothing about physics...".

Interestingly, when I searched the archives (from 1992-1998) of this list
for such a remark (using the search string "nothing and physics"), the only
such remark was your quotation above. In other words, NOBODY on the list
has ever posted such a message (at least since 1992).

So I guess it's a good thing that you didn't attribute the aforementioned
quote to any particular individual, because that would have been a very
unfortunate and injurious statement.

As for the other quotes:

"Wrong..."
"You didn't read my post correctly...."
"You can't change the laws of physics..."
"Completely inaccurate..."

These (and similar statements) have indeed appeared on many occasions on
the list from several posters, and in fact, I am quite sure that I have
also used all of those phrases on multiple occasions.

Quite contrary to what you state above about "disdain/disregard for other
people and their feelings," I find these statements to be purely factual in
nature, succint, and to the point. I know that when I use these
statements, they are never meant with any disrespect.

I think everyone on the list would agree that ad hominem (i.e. appealing to
personal prejudices or emotions rather than to reason) attacks are
inappropriate in this forum (as in most forums). I in particular find the
following types of statements particularly repugnant:

1. "let's not get snobby again"

2. "It's good you are a musician rather than an attorney......
they'd kill you in court with arguments like this!"

3. "that IS cost effective. Even [name] can see that!
If he can't there is a bit of denial going on."

4. "I sure wouldn't want [name] to estimate the cost of
building a house for me.......he would tell me it would
cost $80,000 and would, more than likely (based on these
numbers) end up costing $180,000!"

5. "they are beginning to make you look (for lack of another
term) somewhat foolish."

In 1., someone is referred to as getting "snobby". In 2., someone is
ridiculed as being so incompetent with his/her arguments that he/she could
never make it as a successful lawyer. In 3., "name" is ridiculed by the
use of the term "Even" and then psychoanalyzed by the diagnosis of
"denial". In 4., "name" is ridiculed as being unable to do the basic
arithmetic necessary to add up the costs of building a house. In 5., "you"
is ridiculed as being "somewhat foolish".

All of these are examples of highly inappropriate ad-hominem attacks.

And, in short, they were ALL recently authored by you, Roger. Please
desist from this annoying harassment of the list, and limit your remarks to
discussion of issues, facts and opinions, and NOT personal attacks against
the many individuals who dare to take issue with some of your positions.

--------------------
Jonathan Cohler
cohler@-----.net

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