Klarinet Archive - Posting 000286.txt from 1998/02

From: Roger Garrett <rgarrett@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: Elitism
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:40:18 -0500

Anything is possible......maybe you even wrote it in such a way that it
could misconstured.......just a tad bit.

Roger Garrett
IWU

On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Dee Hays wrote:

> Actually you misunderstood me just a tad bit.
>
> Roger Garrett wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Dee Hays wrote:
> >
> > > Actually there does seem to be an amazing amount of elitism in picking /
> > > recommending clarinets. On the bulletin boards, etc I see a lot of
> > > people taking the approach (or students being pushed into the approach
> > > by an instructor) that everyone who plays, regardless of their musical
> > > activity, should play a professional grade instrument. This is
> > > nonsense. That's like saying everyone should drive a Cadillac or
> > > Mercedes. And I imagine that most people would balk at buying a
> > > Steinway concert grand for the home.
> >
> > Wood vs. plastic is elitism? We have two people, who are in favor of
> > plastic, who admit that they instrument is not as well constructed....and
> > provide reasons that support the professional player/educator/general
> > user's recommendation, and you call it "pushing"? Give me a break.....we
> > recommend what we like for the reasons that we say. I personally advocate
> > a Yamaha beginning clarinet with an eventual switch to a professional
> > level horn.....with no inbetween intermediate. This is a personal
> > approach/philosophy which I can defend with anyone. It doesn't matter to
> > me if someone disagrees.....they have their own recommendation and I can
> > respect that. But to call it elitism or, even worse, racial bias....horse
> > hooey......(sorry folks...that's as vulgar as it gets!).
>
> 1. I am NOT the one who compared it to racial bias.
> 2. I did not say that wood versus plastic is elitism!. But when a relative
> beginner (school kids that is, adults are a different story) is being pushed
> by an instructor (sorry but that is how is sounds on the bulletin board NOT
> this listserv) to buy a professional grade instrument that is objectionable.
> That student's instrument probably will be subjected to a lot. Many kids are
> in marching bands. Also it is the parents paying the bill and elementary and
> junior high students may change their goals in life many times over.
>
> >
> >
> > > While I do agree that students can benefit from the best equipment that
> > > they can afford, when it gets to the point where a high school student
> > > is taking out a loan to buy a professional level instrument it starts to
> > > smack of fiscal irresponsibility on the part of the person "pushing"
> > > these concepts.
>
>
>
> > Where is this on the listserv? Where did anyone push anyone to go out and
>
> > purchase an instrument by taking out a loan? I don't see any evidence of
> > this occurring......are you saying it happpens on some bulliten board
> > somewhere that we don't see? Or......are we talking fiscal responsibility
> > and a gripe you have in general? Please make it clear to us..
>
> 3. NO ONE on the listserv pushed that. However there was a letter on this
> listserv where the writer (who appeared to be a high school student) remarked
> in the course of the discussion that she/he had taken out just such a loan.
> Whether or not a specific person pushed or not, somewhere this student had
> absorbed the idea that he/she had to have a pro horn as soon as possible! Yet
> if the person had played their student instrument for that amount of time and
> saved the money going for payments, then the person could have bought a
> matched set (A and Bb).
>
> 4. Yes part of the point is fiscal responsibility in general.
>
>
> > Who would disagree that this point is good? I just think that if someone
> > wants to call it elitism (which you agreed to) or the equivalent of
> > racism.....they're really stretching to get some attention.
>
> 5. Remember I am not the one who compared it to racism.
>
> 6. However when I see a statement that NO serious musician does this or that
> and uses that logic to spend beyond their means then we are facing a type of
> elitism.
>
>
> > > Now I am not as rigid as this may make me sound. For example if a
> > > student's existing instrument is beyond repair and their music is
> > > important to them AND they understand that they are paying more by
> > > taking a loan and are willing to sacrifice some other things, then we
> > > have a scenario where it may be reasonable to do this.
> >
> > Ah....I see....let's have it both ways....hmmmm.......what a way to
> > present an argument.
> >
>
> 7. NOPE. Notice all the restrictions and there are more that I could have
> included. My point is that the world is not black and white but many shades
> of gray. There are indeed some students who know what they are doing and
> understand the commitment.
>
> > > Professional players are also in a totally different situation than
> > > students.
> >
> > Exactly what does this mean? You mean we need the instrument more?
> > Or...we like it and don't recognize what they need....or what their fiscal
> > situation is?
>
> 8. Very simple. A professional in any activity needs professional grade
> tools. A professional carpenter can't bother with a cheap hammer, as he
> wastes too much time and money replacing it since cheap ones break too often.
> A professional musician can't bother with an instrument with pitch problems or
> whatever else may be the problem on student or intermediate horns. He needs
> to be focusing on the music and his business activities not worrying about
> equipment deficiencies.
>
> >
> >
> > I purchased my own R-13 at age 14 years of age....with money saved from
> > working the berry fields in Oregon. My parents had no money - I was
> > playing on a 20 year old Vito clarinet my dad picked up for $50. I can't
> > even begin to tell you how that clarinet impacted on my playing.
> >
>
> 9. !!! YOU SAVED UP THE MONEY !!! My exact point. And I would be willing
> to bet that when you went to buy you made very sure that it was the right
> instrument for you since you worked hard for that money. By the way my
> parents had no money either. I bought my professional instrument with baby
> sitting money.
>
>
> > Let's try to even things out a little and decide if we just want to
> > complain about something, or if there is a legitimate beef here. I don't
> > see any of what Dee says happens.....but I would admit that it must
> > happen, or she would not get on here and complain about it. But let's not
> > link it to the "elitism" charge that was also linked to a
> > quasi-racial-bias of clarinets.
> >
>
> 10. IMHO any one who links the word elitism to racial bias is being sloppy
> with the language.
>
>
> Dee Hays
> deerich@-----.net
> Canton, SD
>
>