Klarinet Archive - Posting 000105.txt from 1998/01

From: fersilv@-----.net
Subj: Re: Re:women not allowed
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:55:21 -0500

OK, Bob, no warry about it.

Cheers

Fernando Silveira

At 20:35 03/01/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Fernando,
>
>In this case it was an open letter to Starr. I was explaining that she was
>imposing "American Values" on people who have other ways of thinking.=20
>
>In the examples I gave there was no good guy and no bad guy. The hatred
>that exists in many places of the world for people who are different is no
>different from that which did, and still does exist in this country.
>
>Sorry if you took offense - nothing was directed at you.
>
>Bob
>
>----------
>From: fersilv@-----.net
>To: klarinet@-----.us
>Subject: Re: Re:women not allowed
>Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 6:19 PM
>
> Dear Bob, I respect your point of view, but, I don=B4t think that=
are
>" American Values " you have character.=20
> On all diferent countries you have good guys and bad guys. Is
>obvious that are in US people that don=B4t like BLACKS and another ones=
that
>think women@-----. On the entire world it
>happens!!!!
> When you said " You are trying to impose "American Values" on
>people who do not have them. ", YOU are discriminating all other people
>that
>don=B4t are American!!
> I am not american, I am BRAZILIAN, and I am proud of it, because I
>am on the group that respect another people; brazilian or not, black or
>white.
>
> Best
>
> Fernando Silveira
> Principal Clarinet - National Symphony - Brazil
>
>
>
>At 17:14 03/01/98 -0600, you wrote:
>>Starr
>>
>>Why are you trying to pick a fight?
>>
>>It is not an issue that this group can resolve. You want to limit the
>>discussion by excluding groups with men or women in the title, when all
>>should be included (and in fact are under the law).
>>
>>You are trying to impose "American Values" on people who do not have them.
>>Discrimination is a fact in most places in the world. Most of the wars and
>>hot spots around the globe are the result of discrimination. In Africa the
>>Tutsi's killed one-half billion (yes, with a "b") in the name of
>>discrimination.
>>
>>The break up of Yugoslavia provides potent examples of native
>>discrimination and actual hatred for someone different, Slavs versus
>>Croats, etc.
>>
>>We Americans are very much the anomaly - and that is only because we have
>>been legislated to be so.
>>
>>My wife is European and I have found it very common for them to regard
>>others in ways we would find appalling. It is not surprising that they
>also
>>have the beliefs regarding women in certain jobs that was common here at
>>one time.
>>
>>All in all, I don't think it is worth the fight on the list.
>>
>>Bob Baldwin
>>
>>----------
>>> From: maybe Starr,maybe John <starrs@-----.net>
>>> To: Klarinet <klarinet@-----.us>
>>> Subject: Re:women not allowed
>>> Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 2:04 PM
>>>=20
>>> I am amazed at the unwillingness of anyone on this list to come up to
>>> the plate and respond to the following specific question:
>>>=20
>>> If you would be repulsed by, and hopefully boycott a world class
>>> orchestra( that does not have 'men' or 'women' in the title), that was
>>> found to have "not so hidden" discriminatory practices againt
>>> african-americans, why then, would you be more understanding of an
>>> orchestra that held these policies in regard to women?
>>>=20
>>> I think the 'silence' on the list, in respect to answering THIS
>>> question, rather than going off onto some safer tangent, is because most
>>> people's gut feeling is that, for some illogical reason, they aren't as
>>> repulsed by disrimination against women as they are by discrimination
>>> against african-americans and other racial minorities.
>>>=20
>>> Awaiting all responses,
>>>=20
>>> Starr
>>>=20
>>
>>
>
>----------
>
>
>