Klarinet Archive - Posting 000084.txt from 1998/01

From: Bill Hausmann <bhausman@-----.com>
Subj: Re: Vienna Phil. and women
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:32:27 -0500

At 01:48 PM 1/3/98 -0600, Neil wrote:
>On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Craig E. G. Countryman wrote:
>
>> As far as the comments about the groups with men's and women's only in
>> the titles I don't see where an argument can be made toward
>> discrimination in that case.
>
>Is this a widely-held view? I'm genuinely interested. Surely
>the fracas regarding the admission of girls into Boyscouts of
>America was a valid and relevant issue? Does anybody on the
>list have the facts regarding the laws on discrimination when
>it comes to organizations which specify gender or color or
>race qualifications? Would I be denied an audition to the
>Bay Area Women's Philharmonic? A job is a job, and if there's
>an opening and I'm good enough, I'd like a chance to perform
>with an orchestra as much as anybody else. It seems the basis
>of this argument -- parity of employment opportunity based on
>equal standards of qualification (and equal pay) -- has been
>(and continues to be) a central issue in political and legal
>circles for many decades. Does an organization need merely
>to state overtly that it discrimates in order to avoid being
>prosecuted?
>
>Genuinely interested (and yes, I'm playing a little dumb, be-
>cause I know there are older, more experienced people on the
>list, with better memories of American history, who can speak
>with greater authority to this issue than I can, and I'm
>interested to see what the facts are),
>
Individuals have traditionally been free to associate based upon common
interests or beliefs. Private organizations can thus be developed based
upon almost any commonality (red-headed gay quadraplegics, brown-eyed men
named "Bob," or female orchestral musicians). But the emphasis is on the
word "private." Government funded organizations are not allowed to
discriminate since they are "public," not "private." So if the Bay Area
Gay Men's Chorus gets funding through its own members or from corporations,
it can make its own rules regarding eligibility. But even beyond that,
some distinctions are just plain obvious. Boy Scouts are boys by
definition, and that is that. I would not be welcome in the Girl Scouts
for the same reason. To join the Nazi party, you really need to sympathize
with their politics. To join a Christian church, belief in God is pretty
much mandatory. Forcing your square-peg self into someone's round-hole
organization just because you have a high powered lawyer doesn't do any
good for anyone. Businesses are also held to the higher standard, since
"hiring" is not the same as "joining." That may be the most important
distinction here. "Hiring" must be based ONLY upon qualification to
perform the job, "joining" can include other factors.

I just read the story about the female trombonist in the Munich
Philharmonic. I don't think it would have gone on that long in this
country. She deserved better treatment. Anti-discrimination statutes in
this country, although I think they get carried to extremes in some cases,
were designed for just this sort of case and would have protected her much
better than German law apparently did. It sounds to me like the only thing
she couldn't do (and do better, too) than the men is father children!

Bill Hausmann bhausman@-----.com
451 Old Orchard Drive http://www.concentric.net/~bhausman
Essexville, MI 48732 http://members.wbs.net/homepages/z/o/o/zoot14.html
ICQ UIN 4862265

If you have to mic a saxophone, the rest of the band is too loud.