Klarinet Archive - Posting 000020.txt from 1997/12

From: Da Shouryu-man <jnohe@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: Bass clarinet necks
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 16:05:36 -0500

On Mon, 1 Dec 1997, Edwin V. Lacy wrote:
>
> This statement is subject to a lot of interpretation, and unfortunately, a
> lot of misinterpretation. By "pressure," are you referring to air
> pressure, pressure of the embouchure on the reed, muscular exertion, or
> what? Actually, the sax and clarinet embouchures are formed in a similar
> way, but there the relationship ends. The saxophone embouchure should be
> structured, but much less firm than on the clarinet.

Yeah, pressure on the reed. That's what I meant. Sorry for not
clarifying that. So, what I was say was that it is less firm.
>
> > The construction of the saxophone requires that from the middle C
> > (fourth space) and up, you can play with pretty much the same pressure
> > the clarinets, and virtually the same embochure altogether
>
> I don't think so. I don't like the tone of the saxophone when played with
> the clarinet embouchure. As using this much pressure on the reed causes
> the saxophone to go sharp, the usual response is to pull out the
> mouthpiece. This can correct the pitch problem, but results in a thin,
> pinched tone quality, to my ears.

Well, in my experience, it depends on which saxophone. With the alto, I
stay pretty tight in that register, and loosen up on the way down. But
with tenor and bari, it is loose all the way. Once again, I should have
been more specific. Sorry.

(For the record, I have a tendency to be flat, so I've never pulled out my
mpiece pretty far. Some of the sax majors here do, however, and Dr. Fant,
our sax prof. hasn't repremanded them...in public.)

> > Saxes, in general, do not use the exact same tonguing method
> > clarinetists use, which is the tip of the tounge striking only the tip
> > of the reed.
>
> There is a range of techniques possible here, but for me, in no case does
> the tip of the tongue touch the tip of the reed. On the saxes, I try to
> let an area on top of the tongue, about a quarter inch back of the tip,
> touch the reed - underneath the tip of the reed, not directly on the end
> of it.

That's what most of the students in our sax studio do, it seems.

> On the clarinet, I agree that the tongueing is closer to the tip,
> but still not quite directly by the tip of the tongue on the tip of the
> reed. And, I would never use the term "striking" in any discussion with a
> student about articulation. The tongue doesn't "strike" the reed, it
> pulls away from the reed to start the sound.

Yeah, bad choice of words. I choose words badly quite well...maybe this is
why I'm not choosing English as a career? ^_^

> Usually, there is quite a bit of mouthpiece in the mouth when playing with
> a jazz-oriented sound, but not much more than for the clarinet on most
> other, more "legit" saxophone mouthpieces, especially for the alto. But,
> many saxophonists can tongue just as fast as clarinetists, no matter what
> embouchure or mouthpiece/reed setup they use.

Yes, but not tip to tip. That was my initial point. Due to the extra
mouthpiece and the angle, tip to tip tonguing can't be done as fast. They
tongue fast using the sax method.

> I'm having trouble following this logic. I don't feel that I pull the
> tongue "back farther into the mouth," and I don't feel that the tongue is
> "strained" when I play the saxophone.

Well, to tongue tip to tip with more mouthpiece in your mouth, you'd have
to pull the tip of the tongue back further. I was unclear on this, too.
Sorry. Strained...mmm, yeah, not strained, but sometimes gets tired
faster. When you don't tongue tip to tip on sax, you won't have this
problem, usually.

Sorry for not being specific and stuff...

Shouryu Nohe

   
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