Klarinet Archive - Posting 000539.txt from 1997/09
From: Roger Garrett <rgarrett@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: ending the GreenLine plastic/composite thread
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:56:42 -0400
On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Jonathan Cohler wrote:
>
> That is not part of this discussion. I have never said that a person
> should not be allowed to play an instrument. Again your logic is lacking.
As part of the test....with the fingers, blind, and no "feeling" the
horn...? or did I misunderstand? Possible I misread...
> Whether we hope we can be trusted not to be biased is irrelevant.
> Objectivity is not based on hope. It is based on objective criteria. I
> think you need to understand the scientific process better.
It is not an objective test....the scientist still asks for a
response....instead of measuring it someway himself.....even then...
> > After all, we are being asked to accept the
> >experiments that have no opinions.......simply numbers and test results
> >right?
>
> Of course.
Numbers don't give all of the answers...sorry...that is a fact.
> Whether they will "not necessarily be biased" or not is irrelevant. Since
> the possibility of bias exists, we must eliminate it as a variable or else
> the experiment is invalid.
Yes...you said it did matter....now you say it does not.....so certain
biases are relevent and others are not?
> I think continuing on this line any further is a waste of time for the
> list, because I have already made the relevant points in this discussion.
Your points....based on your opinion and old test data with lots of "I
believes"...and not much, other than the initial study, to back it up. No
exact instruments except those manufactured by the people reporting the
results, and no names of the "best musicians" that supposedly listened.
Finally, there are many people who understand scientific study......to say
I do not, Ph.D. (almost!) aside, there are people who simply do not
believe everything that they read because it answers a question. I do,
however, find the study interesting and agree that it may not affect the
overall sound or tone (whatever) that the audience hears. I absolutely do
not believe that there is anything in what you have said that proves or
disproves that the resistance one feels and how one adjusts one's
embouchure, air flow, etc. is not affected by the material. The
discussion regarding brass instruments was completely incorrect and is
old test data. Much more reliable studies exist in the factories that
build the horns It is not a question of science...it
is a question of - if science explains why we feel a difference.
Frankly, I don't believe that we all accept a Greenline because Buffet has
brainwashed into believing it is for a good ecological reason.....it plays
well because it is built well.....and if they come out with ABS plastic
(similar to a Bundy!) with the same hardware and undercutting, I will be
able to determine if the material does make a difference. Until they do,
your quotes are only opinion supported by no evidence regarding the
original question - which was.....Greenlines are made of a substance that
is closer to wood than other non-composite plastics, which, in turn,
affect the resistance and overall performance of an instrument (notice the
lack of the word sound this time around?).
Roger Garrett
