Klarinet Archive - Posting 000194.txt from 1997/06

From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: Improvisation (2)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 1997 17:29:23 -0400

> From: MX%"klarinet@-----.99
> Subj: Re: Improvisation (2)

> I think the reason I have such confusion with the subject is the use of
> real "hard core" improv in jazz, where the piece is introduced and then
> soloists take their own tangents. I am not as accustomed to small changes
> being called improvisation, however it is very accurate. What I meant by
> using the the same tonal structure and changing the line is to keep the
> skeleton chord progressions going while going into variations of the
> melodic line using rhythmic, etc changes to make the melodic line take new
> turns.
> Do you agree with me, however, that it is imperitive to any improvisation
> on a piece like the Mozart to be very well studied and practiced with it
> first? Speaking of making changes to a piece which you have not thoroughly
> learned is like saying you can rewrite a book that you have not read.
> Thanks for the enlightenment. We learn something everyday!

One would be foolish to attempt improvisation on any work without knowing
it well, in the first place, just as it would be very foolish to play
in a dixieland band and attempt improvisation on a tune one never
heard before. The two events are precisely analogous.

> --
> Todd & Lynnette Staley
> email: nette@-----.net
>
> ----------
> > From: Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
> > To: klarinet@-----.us
> > Subject: Re: Improvisation (2)
> > Date: Saturday, June 14, 1997 11:16 PM
> >
> > > From: MX%"klarinet@-----.51
> > > Subj: Re: Improvisation (2)
> >
> > I don't want to cloud the issue by getting involved in terminology.
> > If the performer modifies the composer created line in any way,
> > and if s/he does it without pre-preparation (i.e., instantaneous
> > creativity), then that person is improvising. It may also be
> > called "ornamenting" thought that term is much more restrictive
> > and generally applies to the interpretation of composer created
> > "ornaments."
> >
> > Now the improvisation may be simple, it may be complicated. On
> > a clarinet you cannot modify the accompanying chord structure
> > as one can on a piano, so it is more restrictive on an
> > instrument that can only play a single melodic line.
> >
> > But if you alter what is written, you are improvising, complexity
> > notwithstanding. And it can involve nothing more than adding
> > a passing tone, or it can be a great deal more than that.
> > I don't know what you mean when you say "using the tonal structure
> > of the music and actually changing the line."
> >
> > I don't have any less respect of K. 622 than you and would never
> > take or suggest action to diminish that work. On the contrary,
> > what I suggest is to pay respect to the performance practices
> > that were in effect at the time of its composition.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Dan,
> > > Please let me clarify myself. I do believe that adding embellishments
> to
> > > music is very acceptable and is what makes a piece, such as the
> Mozart,
> > > interesting to hear over again by different artists. I believe that
> this
> > > was always done, certainly in Mozarts time. However, I have not been
> > > accustomed to calling these added touches "improvisation". To me
> improv is
> > > much more of an involved process than a turn, a neighboring tone,
> passing
> > > tone, etc. Possibly I am wrong, and please correct me if I am, but I
> have
> > > understood improv to be using the tonal structure of the written music
> and
> > > actually changing the line, etc to be related to the piece being
> played
> > > however very different in character. I have not been extensively
> > > introduced to improv on clarinet and embellishments of any kind were
> > > called just that. I recently played the Rossler Concerto and added a
> great
> > > number of embellishments to make the piece bearable due to the
> repetition
> > > of arpeggios, etc which were quite boring as played. I have not done a
> > > great deal of investigation on changes on the Mozart, but did do extra
> > > things to it when I played it to keep myself entertained. I do worry
> about
> > > changing the character of the music. I believe that it was intended to
> > > sound a certain way and anychanges that are made should remain in that
> > > character and be compatible. Sorry to ramble. The Mozart is very close
> to
> > > my heart. It really is a masterpiece.
> > > Lynnette
> > > --
> > > Todd & Lynnette Staley
> > > email: nette@-----.net
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > > From: Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
> > > > To: klarinet@-----.us
> > > > Subject: Re: Improvisation (2)
> > > > Date: Saturday, June 14, 1997 8:46 AM
> > > >
> > > > > From: MX%"klarinet@-----.86
> > > > > Subj: Re: Improvisation (2)
> > > >
> > > > > Craig,
> > > > > Is there a really good reason that you feel the need to change the
> > > Mozart?
> > > > > I have never heard of anyone changing it. There are places for
> improv
> > > but
> > > > > 622 is not, IMHO one of them. If by improv, you mean adding turns,
> > > etc, it
> > > > > may be acceptable in spots but the piece has served many in the
> past
> > > with
> > > > > no changes at all.You really could change the character of the
> piece.
> > > > > --
> > > > > Todd & Lynnette Staley
> > > > > email: nette@-----.net
> > > >
> > > > Todd, with great respect, I am forced to disagree with your thesis
> > > which,
> > > > if I understand it, suggests that K. 622, among other works of that
> > > > era, should not be subject to performer created ornaments,
> instantan-
> > > > eously created; i.e., improvised on the spot.
> > > >
> > > > On the contrary, I suggest to you that Craig's request is a very
> > > > reasonable one, that it has serious historical precedent, and that
> > > > any performer of that era was expected to do exactly that in any
> > > > performance of not only solo works, but chamber music, and even
> > > > orchestral playing.
> > > >
> > > > And let me make my point even more specific: doing this thing has
> > > > nothing to do with the music needing it or not. The central issue
> > > > rotates around the role of the soloist in the late 1700s; i.e.,
> > > > was the player a reproducer of someone else's music, or what the
> > > > player a participant in the creative process?
> > > >
> > > > You are correct when you state that "You could change the character
> > > > of the piece" but that is nothing more than a challenge to
> > > > improvise without doing that thing. It is for this reason
> > > > that I am being so inquiring of Craig who simply says that
> > > > he wants to do it. And if, with no understanding of the
> > > > parameters involved, he simply goes ahead and does it, it is
> > > > absolutely certain that what he will arrive at is something
> > > > so badly out of character that anyone listening to it will
> > > > say, "The guy is crazy."
> > > >
> > > > You have touched on the heart of problem when you agree that
> > > > it might be OK to add turns here and there. The question is
> > > > "What can you do, and where?" "How" comes later.
> > > >
> > > > But for you to suggest that it was not done in Mozart's time
> > > > by every and any competent professional performer flies in
> > > > the face of history.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > > From: Craig E. Countryman <cegc@-----.net>
> > > > > > To: klarinet@-----.us
> > > > > > Subject: Improvisation (2)
> > > > > > Date: Saturday, June 14, 1997 8:54 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any information about either classical or jazz or both would be
> > > great.
> > > > > > For instance, in the Mozart Concerto. Also, if I need to improv
> > > some
> > > > > > jazz stuff where do I begin?
> > > > =======================================
> > > > Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
> > > > Rosanne Leeson, Los Altos, California
> > > > leeson@-----.edu
> > > > =======================================
> > =======================================
> > Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
> > Rosanne Leeson, Los Altos, California
> > leeson@-----.edu
> > =======================================
=======================================
Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
Rosanne Leeson, Los Altos, California
leeson@-----.edu
=======================================