Klarinet Archive - Posting 000916.txt from 1997/05

From: "Dan Leeson: LEESON@-----.edu>
Subj: Re: Use of different key clarinets
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:56:18 -0400

> From: MX%"klarinet@-----.07
> Subj: Re: Use of different key clarinets

> That is a good discussion and I would like to tell you about the
> situation in Brazil.
> Until early 70's, ANY professional clarinet players in Brazil had A
> clarinets. You can trust me... They always transpose the A clarinet parts
> to play on Bb clarinet with low Eb. I have a record where the professor of
> my professor plays Mozart Concerto on a transposed Bb clarinet... Can you
> imagine it???
> On that time several conductors like Kurt Mazur, Bernstein and Mazel
> were here and none of them ask about play on A clarinet( scores like
> Tchaikowsky 6th, Ravel's Daphinis et Cloi and all Brahms simphonies).
> I belive that we, clarinet players, can fell diference betwen Bb and
> A clarinets, but the conductor...(Maybe one that also play clarinet)
>
> Regards
>
> Fernando Silveira
> Principal Clarinet - National Symphony - Brazil
> Chamber Music Professor - Rio de Janeiro Federal University
>

Fernando, this is a wonderful story and I am glad you told it to us.
I have two really wonderful anecdotes on this matter.

Herb Blayman was playing with the Utah Symphony as a young man and
they were doing Schubert 9th. The second movement is for an A
clarinet (I think) but Blayman played it on B-flat. The conductor
asked him to change to A and he did. When I heard the story I
was impressed that the conductor could hear a difference (if indeed
he did hear one - read on).

Hans Rudolf Stalder told me almost exactly the same story in
a rehearsal of the same work with his Swiss orchestra. Conductor
did the same thing: stopped and asked him to play in on an A
and not the B-flat. But here the story changes.

Stalder did not have his B-flat with him, so he made some body motions
as if to change clarinets and went back to his A. The conductor
smiled and said, "See how much better it sounds with the right
clarinet?"

Moral of this story: never ask for anything discerning, musically
intelligent, or knowledgeable from a conductor. You will always
be disappointed.

>
> At 15:14 31/05/97 -0500, you wrote:
> >On Sat, 31 May 1997, Keith P Koons wrote:
> >
> >> To continue this discussion of the reasons composers chose to write for
> >> different instruments, let us consider the French horn family. In the
> >> days before valves, composers would write for different keyed horns
> >> [....]
> >> I suppose the use of different keyed trumpets would also be relevant.
> >> Most of the trumpet players I have talked to seem to use the most
> >> expedient keyed trumpet for orchestral parts, not necessarily the one
> >> specified on the part.
> >> [....]
> >
> >A similar circumstance would relate to the tuba. All tuba parts are
> >written non-transposed, as if intended to be played on the tuba in C.
> >However, most orchestral have more than one tuba available, and depending
> >on the requirements of the task at hand, may choose to play on tuba in C,
> >Bb, Eb, or F. I have never heard a conductor suggest to a tuba player
> >which instrument they should play.
> >
> >The same generally is true for trumpets. Most of us have probably seen a
> >trumpet player come to a rehearsal with a "suitcase" full of 3, 4 or more
> >trumpets. The favored instrument for orchestral playing is the trumpet in
> >C. However, a player might choose to use a Bb (not really very likely, as
> >many of them feel that the Bb is a "band" and "jazz" instrument), a
> >trumpet in D or Eb, or a piccolo trumpet in A or Bb, among several other
> >possibilities. The choice of instrument is for the player to make, based
> >not only on technical requirements, but also on the players desire to
> >produce a particular tone quality.
> >
> >If the music in question was written in the Baroque, classical or early
> >romantic period, and even extending quite late into the 19th century for
> >many composers, the part would not necessarily be in the key of any of the
> >instruments mentioned above. The player would be expected to make the
> >necessary transposition for whatever instrument he/she has chosen to use.
> >
> >I know of a few exceptions to all this. One exists in the orchestra in
> >which I play. Our conductor believes that the trumpet players should use
> >rotary valve instruments in music of Mozart, Beethoven, and other
> >composers from about the same period. The orchestra purchased a couple of
> >these instruments, and I can report that most of our trumpet players dread
> >to see music on the program for which they expect that the conductor is
> >going to mention the dreaded term, "rotary valve." There are a couple of
> >problems: one of these instruments is a trumpet in C, while the other is
> >in Bb. This further complicates the intonation problems which the players
> >are going to have anyway due to playing on instruments other than their
> >own. Another rather curious thing to me is that none of the rest of us
> >are expected to play on "period" instruments. Even if we did, the
> >likelihood is that we would tend to do what our trumpet players do, and
> >that is produce a tone quality which is much like the sound we have in our
> >ears from years of playing on more modern instruments.
> >
> >Oh, yes, I forgot to mention - probably in part due to the fact that the
> >players don't play regularly on these instruments, almost no one can tell
> >which instrument they are using unless they turn around and look at the
> >valves. Those of us in the woodwind section, who have to sit in the
> >"direct line of fire" of the trumpet section, can usually tell the
> >difference, because when playing on the supposedly less penetrating rotary
> >valved instruments, the trumpets tend to sound even more "blatty" and
> >piercing than on their regular ones. I'm pretty old, but I can report
> >that I was not alive during the lifetime of either Mozart or Beethoven.
> >However, my musical instincts, however accurate they may or may not be,
> >tell me that these composers would not have expected or liked a tone such
> >as many modern players produce on these instruments.
> >
> >Ed Lacy
> >el2@-----.edu
> >
> >
> >
>
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Dan Leeson, Los Altos, California
Rosanne Leeson, Los Altos, California
leeson@-----.edu
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