Klarinet Archive - Posting 000912.txt from 1997/05

From: HardReed@-----.com
Subj: Re: Freedom of Choice
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 16:28:59 -0400

Dan Leeson said:

"Oh Larry, I love the way you find good holes in my arguments. It is
a testament to your knowledge. There is absolutely NO sarcasm in
that comment, only respect."

No, no, Dan...I'm not looking for holes (or any other shape) in arguments,
opinions, etc. of yours or anyone else's. I've simply provided a couple of
examples of some sort of potential conflict/problem and musing out loud (and
yes, with a dash of sarcasm added!) as to what might be the reason for such.
I don't claim to know any of the answers -- I'm curious to know if anyone
else might have more insight than I.

"But you are still full of bananas for ignoring a second piece of evidence
I supplied in a later note, namelythe four soprano clarinets of
Strauss' Elektra in which two play on B-flat clarinets and two play
on A clarinets. In the overall course of things, the A clarinets may
very well go down to their lowest note. I would be amazed if they
did not. But such evidence is absolutely inconclusive to allow the
assumption that that is the reason why he selected the A clarinet pair."

I didn't ignore it...it didn't apply directly to my questions. I realize
Strauss (as others, of course) was quite adamant of his choice of clarinet
"color." Likewise, Salome uses six clarinets (2 A, 2 B-flat, E-flat and
bass), as do many other of his pieces use multiple clarinets. He especially
(as I'm sure you know) made a point of including C clarinet in pieces (such
as Schlagobers and his last two large wind pieces, for example) along with
the "other" clarinets, that, presumably, for the change (difference?) in
color. And having played a lot of those tunes, the C is definitely
preferable (I can barely read it, let alone transpose it!) -- and that's the
instrument on which I play them. As for hitting the lowest note, of course
it's nothing more than a coincidence...or it/was it? That's where my
curiosity enters.

"I am glad that your chocolate cake recipe is better than your
examination of the facts at this point. (I made the cake and it
was great but my wife, who is lactose intolerant, could not eat
it. I had to eat the whole thing. It was a tough job, but someone
had to do it.)"

Hmmm...I certainly hope that you're not going to blame me for that little
medical incident you experienced last summer! Your doctor would, I'm sure,
recommend moderation -- next time, have only one piece at a time.

"One cannot read about this kind of logic in books on the subject because
it is too special a case."

Agreed!

"What you have examined above leaves you with the impression that Stravinsky
"had no clue." I don't know if this is true or false. You, having
made that statement, assume it to be true, and move forward as if it
is. I do not know what the circumstances are with respect to
the Stravinsky low D, but let me add that I have a low D added to
all of my clarinets (though the attachment can be used only on
one clarinet at a time unless one has multiple attachments) that
permits that note for exactly that work. I don't know what Stravinsky's
reasoning is, but I presume that what he has asked for is what he wants."

Well, Dan, first of all, I said "MAYBE he just had no clue?" It was simply
another comment added to my little "list" of possible "whys." It certainly
wasn't a conclusion, but rather, an afterthought. Please take it as such. I
also presume he wanted that note, but what I asked for was what knowledge he
had and what result might he have expected based on that knowledge
(presumably the knowledge being that there is no low D on the A clarinet?).
I believe that the fact that you have a low D appendage on your clarinet(s)
is the exception, rather than the rule (for the record, I concocted something
that also allowed me to play the note -- but it wasn't pretty!). From the
scant bit of info I've read, Stravinsky was a smart man, and as we all can
hear, a master of orchestration. Logic notwithstanding, might it occur to
you (or anyone else reading this) that he had complete knowledge of the
clarinet's capabilities and limitations?

"Bottom line: I am not smart. Stravinsky was smarter than me. So
was Mahler. So was Strauss. Unless I see compelling evidence
(COMPELLING!!), I presume that what they asked for is what they
meant.

As do I...as I am also not smart (See? We ARE alike!), what I seek is WHY
they asked for what might not have been available to them.

"You presume that what they asked for derives from ignorance on their
part."

Nope...I only list it as a possible reason. I haven't had the opportunity to
delve into the minds of these composers, but ignorance, error, and the like
always enters in as a possibility, remote as it probably is.

Heck, I even heard (back in the first grade, I think?) that Columbus (the
explorer, not the capital of Ohio) thought he had found Asia after crossing
the Atlantic...but nope, according to my quite old Stan Freberg album, "The
United States of America, The Early Years," he actually found the New World
(but he couldn't cash a check because all the banks were closed for Columbus
Day!).

"Oh yes, one final piece of evidence, Mahler 4. The b.c. player has
been playing on both B-flat and A bass for the entire piece. At
the very end of the final movement, when the b.c. player has
been resting for 50 or 60 measures and had plenty of time to pick
up either instrument, Mahler provides for an exposed solo in
an ugly key signature and for B-flat bass clarinet. He could have
used an A bass in a much nicer key, but what he chose was an
ugly key (I think 6 sharps) on a particular instrument. The
last thing the b.c. player was doing before the 50 or 60 measures
of rest was on the A bass so that instrument is still warm. The
B-flat bass has not been used for a while and is cold. In the
face of all these impediments, Mahler still chooses the B-flat
bass."

Again, I have no problem with this or any other choice of instrument by the
composer. My questions dealt with supposedly "unplayable" notes on the
majority of instruments, of which I can only assume (a dangerous word, I
realize!) the majority of clarinetists at the time of the compositions were
using. My first example (Mahler 3rd) served as a preface, since he used a
pitch on the A clarinet which is not available on most B-flats (did he do
this for that reason or was it merely a coincidence?) and it was the ONLY use
of the A clarinet in the entire work...yet he did write low E-flats for those
of us not fortunate enough to possess them later on. I think I have the
right to be puzzled by that..don't I?

"For me, at least, that is compelling evidence that he knew what
he wanted. Maybe I'm wrong. But you have shown nothing but
your speculation to suggest that you are correct."

Not speculation -- questions...to me, they are all questions without answers.
Call it my nature, Dan. I don't always accept things by blind faith when
something is particularly puzzling to me. If and when the pieces fall in
place, I am a happy camper.

Larry Liberson
Detroit Symphony Orchestra
Hard Reed@-----.com