Klarinet Archive - Posting 000078.txt from 1996/10

From: Jonathan Cohler <cohler@-----.NET>
Subj: Re: odd comment (acoustics)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 02:57:45 -0400

Randolf,

I'm sure Clark Fobes could correct me on this if I misstate something, but
my understanding of the "lay" is that it is the length from the tip of the
mouthpiece (including the rail, I believe) to the first portion of the
table that is no longer curved (i.e. is flat).

Measuring it would require some sort of very accurate tool, because the
curvature of the tip asymptotically approaches the flat table. Therefore,
with the naked eye, it looks as though it is flat before it really is. I
tried slipping a thin piece of paper underneath a reed laid on the
mouthpiece. By feeling where the paper gets stuck seems to give a decent
approximation.

But to make a measurement accurate to .5mm, there must be some sort of
tool. Clark must know. Help, Clark!

As for width of facing, I believe this is a standard fixed number,
otherwise reeds wouldn't work too well.

The curvature of the tip is another issue (maybe Clark can talk about this
too). This does seem to vary from mouthpiece to mouthpiece, and there has
been a bunch of discussion on the list about shaping the tip of the reed to
match your mouthpiece, which will be very important for fine control of
response.

Fortunately for us Vandoren users, the reeds and mouhpieces already match
perfectly.

-------------------
Jonathan Cohler
cohler@-----.net

At 8:37 AM 10/4/96, Randolf Keller wrote:
>Jonathan,
>
>thank your very much for sharing your knowledge on this issue.
>After reading your postings, I actually measured the dimensions on my
>mouthpieces (all kinds, as I tried out quite a lot), also on the one which I
>play now (B45 lyre), but could not confirm the value of the facing. In
>general I measure approx. 31mm from tip to the end.
>Could you please give some advice from where to where the facing is measured?
>
>Also I wonder about a 3rd parameter, which is the width of the "facing".
>Measured straight (diameter) gives a value between 11-12mm.
>What is the influence of this value to the physics of the reed vibration?
>(Well the next question would be that one about the radius of the tip, but
>that may be one of the secrets of mouthpiece makers?!)
>
>Regards, Randolf
>
>
>>Bill,
>>
>>Sorry, but the opening is the opening. It is the distance from the plane
>>of the table to the tip. Nothing ambiguous there. And 1.00mm is
>>incredibly closed.
>>
>>As for length of lay, I did mention it in my message (I referred to it as
>>facing, and specified it for each of the mouthpieces I mentioned). With
>>the more open mouthpieces, a longer lay is generally required.
>>
>>The longer the facing (with a given tip opening), the stronger the reed
>>that is required. The greater the tip opening (with a given facing), the
>>softer the reed that is required.
>>
>>By balancing tip opening and facing length, Vandoren made its entire
>>mouthpiece family to play nicely on 3s or 3 1/2s.
>>
>>-------------------
>>Jonathan Cohler
>>cohler@-----.net
>>
>>
>>At 11:01 AM 10/3/96, Fogle, Bill wrote:
>>>Jonathan,
>>>
>>>My tip opening is based on the maker's quote (Clark Fobes,
>>>San Francisco) who himself says his measurements end up smaller
>>>than Matsen's (a standard) guage. Also, I quoted it incorrectly (are you
>>>reading this, Clark?) It's 1.00, actually. I also play with much delight a
>>>Gregory Smith facing that I believe is pretty "open" (no tip figures
>>>given).
>>>
>>>I think there's a "center" that many players move toward, whether they
>>>approach that place with soft reed/open mpc, or hard[er] reed/closed.
>>>This applies to tone as well as resistance. In any case, I'm enjoying
>>>your comments on this topic. I confess I like to "push" when playing,
>>>and I also confess that my reading (David Pino comes to mind) has supported
>>>the vogue for reeds with "heart" and long facing mouthpieces with *rather*
>>>small openings. A question: you haven't said anything about length of lay.
>>>When I was play-testing the Fobes mouthpieces, I found a difference
>>>between his 17 and 18mm facing lengths (all mouthpieces differ, I realize).
>>>Thanks, -----Bill Fogle.
>>>
>>
>>
>********* sent by: *************
>
>Randolf Keller
>
>Kasa MK 303
>13-19 Nagano-Higashi
>Suita-shi, Osaka 564, Japan
>
>Tel./Fax: +81 / 6 / 876 - 1319
>e-mail: rkeller@-----.com
>CompuServe: 100513,3567
>homepage: http://www2.gol.com/users/rkeller
>
>********************************